What do you think prompts the sale of what should be a cherished memento??
Maywood
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This morning I was checking some e-mails and looking around at eBay and I ended up at a listing for the item below, an award medal that is now about 130 years old. It came from the World's Columbian Exposition of 1892-3 and was given to the Illinois State Horticultural Society and still resides in the metal case these were issued in. Both the medal and the case appear to be in pristine condition so it was clearly stored well and cared for.
There were obviously a large number of categories that were awarded these medals because they are common, numbering in the hundreds over a wide variety of topics. It strikes me as odd that so many are held with such low regard and are being liquidate by heirs or organizations have owned them for such a long time. Wouldn't something like this be a prestigious award?? The medal I own was awarded to Joseph Edmunds in recognition of his "Curry" recipes and other culinary dishes he displayed at the Exhibition. Yet his heirs didn't think it was anything important.
I know I'm old school, but a tie to my ancestors is important, a link to my past relatives matters to me. What do you think prompts people to sell these kind of items, things that have been passed down for generation and ended in their care?? Even worse is when an organization decides to sell part of their history. I wonder if this is what will be the eventual demise of my personal collection if I "will" it to my children. It makes me understand why so many collectors sell what they have before they reach the end of their lives.
Maywood.
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I own a number of San Francisco Schools Bridge Medals which were given to boys from 1879 to 1915.
My guess is that the original owners died and their heirs just wanted to get rid of the "junk".
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You go out a couple generations and the heirs don't even know the awardee who died before their birth. I don't see any reason why an award need resonate at all with someone with no attachment to the original awardee.
@Maywood... I see your point, and agree, especially in regards to familial mementos. I have a few such treasures, being the senior remaining member of my family. I will pass on particular items to my daughters, and I am sure they will keep them. Cheers, RickO
i think i am somewhere between the OP and jml.
i am sure there are big disconnects from a multi-generational spread, of course.
obviously, the need to pay bills and you know, eat food, drink water probably is near the top of the list. especially if someone has kids. perhaps sell the item to fund the purchasing of a bike or to pay a medical bill. (there is a CLASSIC example on the bst right now and have been others)
we've seen PLENTY of stuff like i have mentioned and more here on the boards. life before objects? something like that i'd think.
NOW, for those that have no NEED to sell but just end up doing it, that would confound me a bit. while jml is right about that disconnect, the person would be part of the family history and for me it would be inspiring and a fantastic conversational piece and perhaps a cool school project for someone, provided a little care/security would be involved.
The reasons mentioned above...also in this case specifically Columbus is not a revered figure anymore, I personally would not want the medal for that reason alone.
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Perhaps no (responsible) heirs to pass along to.
It's just stuff. Some people are more sentimental than others.....
That really is the issue. And not all awards are really directly connected to family history. For example, grammar school awards of an ancestor you never knew will not have much resonance. If GM have your great grandfather a 15 year of service lapel pin, that won't really resonate with a descendent who doesn't even know or care that great grandpa worked for GM.
I can think of 2 coins that were heirlooms but eventually sold. Wolcott's silver center cent was in his family in the Rochester area for 200 years before they walked it into a local coin store. It was then sold at auction and left the family.
There was also a local family that had a 1905 gold proof set. I briefly owned one of the coins. It was in the family for 100+ years. Great grandma had bought it directly from the Philadelphia Mint in 1905. It was an heirloom brought out at family Christmas celebrations until about 10 years ago when the Christmas puppy chewed several of the coins. Lol. They decided to sell them at that point.
I've cherished a CC dollar, 1870, that was a presentation piece from Abe Curry (Mint Director) to my Great Grandfather, Matt Rinckel. I did not know him as he passed in 1879 long before I was a thought. However, my kids are not interested in keeping it as there is no connect to him or Carson City (born elsewhere and never lived there). I guess my fault for leaving CC for far away adventures and never returning.
I'm up there in age and thinking now what do I do with the first silver dollar minted in CC? I have the documentation from the family and news articles.
It was a pocket piece from 1870 to 1933 and then again from 1933 to 1955 or so (Great Grandmother and then Great Aunt). So, obviously no longer MS and not well kept but it is historical in my eyes. It was put into a bracelet in 55 and worn till Great Aunt passed in60.
bob
PS: It was because of research I was doing on this dollar that I determined the correct date for minting silver dollars was Feb 4, 1870, not the Feb 11 that is in all the coin books.
Judging from the replies thus far it comes down to how personally important family heirlooms and family history are to each of us. As collectors of historic items, which is what coins are when everything else is stripped away, I don't seem to understand why something with family history of importance to an entity's could be easily dismissed. I have always felt the past informs the future.
Most heirs just want to get rid of any "stuff" they don't want to be bothered with storing. Sentiment often fades quickly as generations pass.
LOL @bsshog40? The Columbus legacy is a big joke right? Its hilarious.
Probably not the place to push your agenda.
The original post seems somewhat judgmental. I don’t think it’s necessary to keep an ancestor’s possessions in order to value that ancestor or their accomplishments.
As for this medal, it’s possible that it was diligently cared for, or equally possible that it was left in a box, untouched and unseen in the back of a closet for the last 100+ years. It is a cool, well-crafted medal!
My own sense of sentimental value would lead me to save just about anything that is remotely a family heirloom. However, I understand that not everyone shares that approach.
Add to that the fact that some family trees constrict significantly between certain generations or even end altogether.
My preference for my own heirlooms is that they be preserved in the family, but I will also insist that if they can't or won't be properly stored they should be sold off to appropriate buyers. I don't want my stuff rotting away in a basement, attic, or garage.
I totally get this - I'm sitting on my military medals, certificates of achievement etc, but I have no kids and my niece couldn't care less. Not sure why I keep them at this point. Same goes for all of the stuff I collect - there is no interest beyond me. I'm actually selling off most of my antiques I purchased abroad so I can be mobile when I retire in a few years (if anyone is interested in 17th century wood carvings...).
And what is the agenda? That his legacy stinks, that is not an agenda that is a fact.
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Go preach somewhere else and welcome to the "Ignore" list. Have a nice day.
As we find out each day very few people today care about or learn from history, I like you're thinking but I also think your well outside the mainstream of the younger generations that are inheriting the things of past generations.
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This is a good conversation that covers the broad spectrum of why we collect, preserve or cherish anything.
The whole spread of sentiments exist from people cherishing many items from their ancestors to ones who have nothing from their ancestors, never heard of them and do not even care to know about them. Yes, those extremes exist.
Some heirs have cared for the items they inherent, but at a certain point, life changes and sometimes it is hard to keep the larger items like lamps and furniture, for example, so they sell them to antique dealers before any damage could occur to them.
Also, keep in mind that during a family's generational succession, lots of disruptions can occur such as divorce, broken homes, and family feuds, so heirlooms often get swept to the wayside.
An ideal situation is to have family cohesion where stories are told about the past and objects shown to the children that correspond to those stories. As the years go by, the children will have heard those stories several times and be familiar with the objects. They will develop some kind of affinity for them or at least are able to know their context. Having them brought to a show and tell at school is a great idea as more exposure to the heirloom gets fostered and a sort of ownership of the family narrative gets ingrained. The children end up with their own stories about the item if they are able to share the story with friends. That is a good recipe for building some affinity for the stories and items of the family. It may still be the case that all this falls on deaf ears, but with multiple potential heirs, that just makes it easier to assign where all this should go next. Also, one generation may not have any interest in this, but the next generation can, so some responsibility needs to be accepted for the future and individuals need to look beyond themselves in that manner.
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I agree with several posters above it’s just stuff. Some people have an emotional attachment to stuff. Some don’t. Trying to tell someone to keep it or not keep it is like trying to tell a hoarder he doesn’t need a 20 year old newspaper. To you it’s just stuff to him it’s an attachment to what happened 20 years ago.
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At some point you might have a hard decision to make. Do I keep this material object or do i make a sale for the welfare of my family. If you family needs you to sell this item for the benefit of the family, then so be it. Family is always first .
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Perfect, no. Heroic, yes. He was a man of his times. But there is little point in dragging politics into a discussion of nostalgia and family heirlooms. If you only knew what your ancestors did, you'd change your surname.
I gave my opinion of the man and his legacy as I have a right, and I was challenged as having an agenda.
He was not merely " a man of his times" he was of the most brutal explorers murdering everything in his path including small children.
Whether we like it or not politics is enmeshed in history and coin collecting. Ignoring the brutality of his legacy will teach us nothing.
There is no political grandstanding for pointing out past transgressions. The danger is ignorance, not politics.
Not here, you don't. Read the forum rules.
To get back on topic.
I think the misunderstanding of this post (the op) is that the momento is cherished. Selling it means more likely it’s no longer cherished. Could be due to the material on it could be due to no reverence for the past, could be to longer remembering the owner. But it’s not our place to decide what one keeps and doesn’t. When I get older I’ll ask my kids what they want and what they don’t. I plan to dispose of the don't so they don’t have to.
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Incorrect. Specifically the right to express my reasoning for not collecting Columbus material.
We cannot comment on particular immoral behavior by relevant numismatic related personalities? It happens here on the board frequently about known criminal conduct by individuals, in fact all the time. How is this different? Because we dislike the facts that are attached to the specific hero?
Similarly a collector has a right to explain reasoning for not collecting slave badges or any other material attached to morally reprehensible historical events or periods. If we cannot express personal reasoning for collecting than we restrict a purpose of the board, to disseminate and discuss facts relevant to specific material, and to numismatics.
It's up to the moderators, not you, to decide what is acceptable here.
Thats a fair point, I get it now.
Sure....read your post, it's up to the moderators, not you, to decide what is acceptable here.
This interesting thread went off the rails in a hurry. Hopefully it doesn’t get closed, as it’s very interesting to see the various viewpoints
Having heard about the pieces in his coin collection, I have been striving unsuccessfully, so far, to get adopted by RickO even after promising that I wouldn't get rid of the good stuff. Was even willing to share some of them with the girls!.......
!
Bruce
In terms of the OP's question as to why an organization, as opposed to an individual or family member, might dispose of "cherished mementos", I can think of numerous reasons.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I shouldn't, but...
How is sailing west from Europe to find a shorter route to eastern Asia because your fundamentalism led you to interpret the Bible (it doesn't say anything about the size of Earth) as saying the earth is only about 1/7th its actual size (known since at least ancient Greek times), and "discovering" land resided for 10K+ years, and even visited a few centuries prior by other Europeans, getting extremely lucky that there was land between Europe and Asia so that his crew did not mutiny and kill him, heroic?
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Sailing into the unknown requires a level of bravery. It was a challenge just to round up money and a crew for a speculative journey. This is not a 1st class flight across the Atlantic. The sea is filled with dead sailors from less dangerous journeys. Consider all the famous numismatic wrecks that are famous within the hobby.
There is a reason he ended up celebrated in western society. And while his legacy and history are more complicated, it is as wrong to belittle his accomplishment as it would be to ignore his faults.
Shall we debate the evil nature of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson now? Or maybe we should recognize both their accomplishments and faults.