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3 Clad Layers

ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

Ever see a coin with 3 clad layers on a copper core?

This is a first for me. I have never seen another. I have a few examples of coins that have been struck thru a clad layer, but this coin is different and way special.

Enjoy, Chris

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so nice when that ol pesky collar is outta the way. georgie's hair and details along with the eagle's lovely plumage has never looked so good!

    that HAS to be a super rare error? (i do see you commented) someone took an already detached clad layer and then put it on the anvil die?

    perhaps that was the die cap and it separated from the hammer die, except part of the clad layer stuck and then was struck through?

    i wonder if someone "accidentally" dropped it, if the extra reverse layer would come off?

    i KINDA did something like that recently with a quarter and half i found while roll searching. i think they "officially" call them magician's coins BUT one of them had a prize inside! the reverse of some mexican coin to make it essentially an interchangable reverse! ok so not really the same but KINDA. ;)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2022 9:31AM

    I seriously doubt this was done on purpose.

    I do think that there are clad layers all over the mint as there is this coin, many, many struck thru clad layer error coins, and some struck on the clad layer only error coins.

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    wozymodowozymodo Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2022 9:53AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    I seriously doubt this was done on purpose.

    Sooo cool and unique!! Displays a randomness that manipulated errors, though outrageous, fail to achieve. Thanks for sharing!

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2022 10:42AM

    Mike, wow what an amazing error coin. I have not seen that one before.

    Impossible for that to not have been done on purpose, but struck with US Mint dies at the US Mint makes this coin very interesting. Nice double dates.

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    silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,606 ✭✭✭✭✭

    B) error coin

    Coins are for sale at the link below :) **
    **https://photos.app.goo.gl/KcAc6gj51c26g72WA

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2022 11:31AM

    I was having a discussing this morning whether or not to send this coin to PCGS or NGC to be put in one of their error coin holders.

    I personally like the old little white ANACS slabs and have never cracked one out. I view them as collectable and part of error coin history.

    IMO, ANACS undergraded this coin as they usually did back then. Would you keep this coin in the old white ANACS slab or crack it and send it to one of the big two TPG's?

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins ... Wow.. I have not seen one of those before. I do not hunt/collect errors, but sure love to see these wild ones here on the forum. Cheers, RickO

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LindyS

    That’s definitely a unique mated pair!

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmmmmmm……

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is the weight? We can calculate the weight of a clad layer (1/6th that of a normal coin).

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    What is the weight? We can calculate the weight of a clad layer (1/6th that of a normal coin).

    No idea as it is slabbed.

    It is clearly a bonded clad layer for sure.

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin, I like 👍

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    I was having a discussing this morning whether or not to send this coin to PCGS or NGC to be put in one of their error coin holders.

    I personally like the old little white ANACS slabs and have never cracked one out. I view them as collectable and part of error coin history.

    IMO, ANACS undergraded this coin as they usually did back then. Would you keep this coin in the old white ANACS slab or crack it and send it to one of the big two TPG's?

    do you think errors that have been struck with no collar should grade higher or on a curve because the only reason they are strongly struck and with such lovely surfaces is because of the lack of collar.

    i know non-error coins don't get special designations because they have a weaker strike, partially due to the collar. not always because of impairment to certain features.

    we've seen double struck coins where the initial strike in-collar was kinda so-so but then struck w/o the collar and the 2nd strike is significantly superior in detail and surface quality but of course usually obliterated out of round.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    I was having a discussing this morning whether or not to send this coin to PCGS or NGC to be put in one of their error coin holders.

    I personally like the old little white ANACS slabs and have never cracked one out. I view them as collectable and part of error coin history.

    IMO, ANACS undergraded this coin as they usually did back then. Would you keep this coin in the old white ANACS slab or crack it and send it to one of the big two TPG's?

    do you think errors that have been struck with no collar should grade higher or on a curve because the only reason they are strongly struck and with such lovely surfaces is because of the lack of collar.

    i know non-error coins don't get special designations because they have a weaker strike, partially due to the collar. not always because of impairment to certain features.

    we've seen double struck coins where the initial strike in-collar was kinda so-so but then struck w/o the collar and the 2nd strike is significantly superior in detail and surface quality but of course usually obliterated out of round.

    That is partly it. Many error coins without the collar have very strong strikes. Bonded coin even more so.

    IMO, on the whole, almost all of the old white ANACS slab are undergraded as standards were different then they are now.

    Many of the old ANACS just had a standard MS60 label which was almost never the case.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    What is the weight? We can calculate the weight of a clad layer (1/6th that of a normal coin).

    No idea as it is slabbed.

    It is clearly a bonded clad layer for sure.

    Checking the weight, which takes about 30 seconds, should be an automatic step when attempting to attribute an error such as this.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look at the strength of the strike on those tail feathers! Wow!!

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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2022 4:15PM

    Upon reflection, I have never seen a bonded clad layer error. This is a very interesting and accurately described certified error. I agree grams weight should be archived but 6 digit Anacs ceased a very long time ago. Very Nice ! You did well daylighting this one !

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is with the double striking above TED STA?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erwindoc said:
    Look at the strength of the strike on those tail feathers! Wow!!

    Partly the broadstrike, partly the (apparent) extra metal between the dies.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2022 6:56PM

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    What is the weight? We can calculate the weight of a clad layer (1/6th that of a normal coin).

    No idea as it is slabbed.

    It is clearly a bonded clad layer for sure.

    Checking the weight, which takes about 30 seconds, should be an automatic step when attempting to attribute an error such as this.
    @LindyS said:
    Your bonded 25c is quite nice & accurately described on slab.

    I have a somewhat related 25c
    It was struck thru an elliptical clad layer, with an interesting small folded over edge making for an unusual, mated pair.

    LindyS, that is an amazing set. That would look good in a double holder.

    Here is a related error coin, an detached elliptical clipped clad layer with Fred's label ...

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    What is with the double striking above TED STA?

    My guess is metal flow from the strong strike.

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    What is with the double striking above TED STA?

    My guess is metal flow from the strong strike.

    Here is another possibility:

    https://www.error-ref.com/stutterstrike-a/

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    Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    Highly unlikely that the Quarter with bonded layer(s) was intentional. It’s a very dramatic and likely unique mint error!

    This one on the other hand was intentional:

    Not really wanting to continue the drift from the clad layers, but does this mean there is an intentional "error" Ike dollar with a partial brockage of a Peace dollar reverse?

    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    What is with the double striking above TED STA?

    My guess is metal flow from the strong strike.

    Here is another possibility:

    https://www.error-ref.com/stutterstrike-a/

    Interesting.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let’s stick with the clad layers please.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ByersByers Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The reverse is blank.


    .

    Ok, now back to clad layers…

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not sure how to post a link to another thread here. See my detached clad layer coin in this thread. "One thin dime-kinda". Similar to the slabbed Fred Weinberg coin shown above except mine is round not elliptical.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Ever see a coin with 3 clad layers on a copper core?

    This is a first for me. I have never seen another. I have a few examples of coins that have been struck thru a clad layer, but this coin is different and way special.

    Enjoy, Chris

    On the obverse, there appears to be a fairly normal raised rim, but way out from the letters of LIBERTY and the date.

    On the reverse, we have a raised rim close to UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, but then it takes that funny jog above TED STA.

    Are we sure that there are not multiple strikes involved? Don't ask me how, I am still working on if.

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ByersByers Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok.

    Since it seems that we are ONLY discussing clad layers…

    Here is a PROOF clad layer😉

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    Ok.

    Since it seems that we are ONLY discussing clad layers…

    Here is a PROOF clad layer😉

    Very nice, but that looks like an entire clad layer, not half of one.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool!

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    On the obverse, there appears to be a fairly normal raised rim, but way out from the letters of LIBERTY and the date.

    On the reverse, we have a raised rim close to UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, but then it takes that funny jog above TED STA.

    Are we sure that there are not multiple strikes involved? Don't ask me how, I am still working on if.

    TD

    the extra clad layer fwiw, wasn't struck on center. there is less at k5 and extra a k11.

    the extra at k11 is sticking out over the edge a bit of the coin edge underneath but it appears not by much.

    i thought about multi struck as well because of diameter but i don't see the tale-tale signs which are usually pretty obvious.

    whomever was operating the press sure got those dies AWFULLY close together to get THAT much metal squished out like that. hard to imagine they'd have em set up to run like that as it would just cream the poor dies pretty quickly.

    like you said, trying to decipher this stuff, especially from images, not matter how awesome they are (which the ones above are) is fun and hair-splitting. lol

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Ever see a coin with 3 clad layers on a copper core?

    This is a first for me. I have never seen another. I have a few examples of coins that have been struck thru a clad layer, but this coin is different and way special.

    Enjoy, Chris

    On the obverse, there appears to be a fairly normal raised rim, but way out from the letters of LIBERTY and the date.

    On the reverse, we have a raised rim close to UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, but then it takes that funny jog above TED STA.

    Are we sure that there are not multiple strikes involved? Don't ask me how, I am still working on if.

    TD

    Those rims still puzzle me, but I cannot figure them out.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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