Not a US coin. But it has a connection to US history!

lordmarcovan · October 26, 2022 2:28PM

I'm quite pleased with my latest acquisition, though I paid a steep price for it.

The coin is a Roman Republican denarius from circa 109-108 BC.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=6053&lot=408

"L. Memmius. 109-108 BC. AR Denarius (19mm, 3.36 g, 12h). Rome mint. Wreathed head of male right; mark of value below chin / The Dioscuri standing facing, each holding spear and bridle of his horse. Crawford 304/1; Sydenham 558; Memmia 1; RBW 1145. Toned, minor porosity on obverse. VF."

So what's the connection to the United States, you ask?

Well, this coin was once in the collection of a famous ancestor of mine. Here's the pedigree.

"From the David J. Fleischmann Collection. Ex John Quincy Adams & Descendants Collection/Massachusetts Historical Society (Stack's, 5 March 1971), lot 448 (part of)."

Here's my stern looking ancestor as an old man, circa 1843-1848, some time after he served as the sixth President of the United States.

How's that for history? A 2,100-year-old Roman coin with a nearly 200-year-old pedigree to a US president's collection?

I thought that was cool. Throw in the family connection, and you can see why I had to have it.

lordmarcovan · October 26, 2022 2:34PM

@swampboy - I finally got one, see?

Still jealous of that ex-JQA serratus you got, though.

Post it if you have the pix!

TPRC · October 26, 2022 2:58PM

Lord M--I have several of these, mostly Irish coins. I also have at least one of the catalogues that goes with them and some of the original auction flips. However, as I understand it, it is impossible to tell definitively that it came from JQA's actual collection because the Massachusetts Historical Society mixed some of their holdings with the auction. Still, it is enough of a connection for me. IIRC, the collection was donated to the society upon his death; however, I would need to check that as well.

Here are a couple of Mexican medals. At least one or both came from the same auction- I would need to check my records. And here also is an Irish piece that came from the same auction. I tried to get PCGS to put the provenance on the slabs, but as there were no pics of these relatively inexpensive pieces, they would not.

lordmarcovan · October 26, 2022 3:06PM

@TPRC said:
Lord M--I have several of these, mostly Irish coins. I also have at least one of the catalogues that goes with them and some of the original auction flips. However, as I understand it, it is impossible to tell definitively that it came from JQA's actual collection because the Massachusetts Historical Society mixed some of their holdings with the auction. Still, it is enough of a connection for me.

True. But like you said, there's enough of a connection for me. And since 19th century collectors favored Classical Greek and Roman coinage, I'd say there's a pretty decent chance ol' JQA himself once owned the piece in the OP. I like to think so, anyway.

Nice Spanish colonials- and that Philip & Mary Irish (groat?) is awesome!

I tried to get PCGS to put the provenance on the slabs, but as there were no pics of these relatively inexpensive pieces, they would not.

Hmm. I wonder if I'll encounter the same issue when I submit the coin above to NGC. Considering it was only part of a lot in the 1971 auction, and therefore unlikely to have been individually displayed in the catalogs, I might have an issue there. But I'll submit it to them with a printout of the CNG page and hope for the best.

DCW · October 26, 2022 3:07PM

Awesome piece and amazing family connection!
I can see the resemblance, too

CaptHenway · October 26, 2022 4:00PM

Thread of the week!

erwindoc · October 26, 2022 5:55PM

That is awesome! PM sent.

sjkrose · October 26, 2022 6:33PM

That's a cool piece... Here's a Irish Halfgroat of Mary Tudor which was acquired by Charles Francis Adams (1807-86) from one of the London dealers when he resided in the city in the 1860s. Yes... he purchased a counterfeit!