Trying to get a feel for the grade on this 1919 Buffalo Nickel *Video Added* Updated with grade

jtlee321

I picked up this raw 1919 Buffalo Nickel from my LCS. I noticed it in the case and was surprised that it had very strong 1938-D look to it. It does have a small mark on the neck on the obverse and a spot of verdigris under the bison's chin. I paid 63 money for it and trying to decide if it would be worthwhile to send in for grading.

Also, are verdigris spots removable using Verdi-Care on Buffalo's without leaving a glaring spot?

The spots below the eye are raised areas that are part of the design.

Connecticoin

I would try soaking it in Acetone before using Verdi-Care. Looks like it might have some PVC haze, which may have caused the green spot.

jesbroken

If acetone did not remove the affected areas on the obverse AND I thought it might grade 65 or even 64, I would send it in and have it conserved and probably have a better chance at the higher grade. Nice coin. I like the die crack and die clash on the obverse, it adds character to an already beautiful coin.
Jim

2windy2fish

My GTG pre-submission is 65….without any conservation…i believe the spot on the reverse is inconsequential…

ricko

An acetone soak would be worth it, just to see if the reverse spot disappears. Looks like a 64+ or 65 coin.... Interesting small die clash on the obverse. Cheers, RickO

DelawareDoons

Q-Tip that spot with acetone. If that doesn't work, try MS70 on a Q-Tip, just rinse the crap out of it afterwards.

This post brought to you by Q-Tip.

TPRC

I agree—4 or 5.

jtlee321

I appreciate the feedback. I'll try the acetone and see if it helps. I just didn't want to take a chance of removing the spot an leaving something even worse looking.

The die crack and the clash are part of what drew me to the coin. The luster I have to say is surprisingly bright. Like I said in my OP, it really has a 38-D look to it. Most of your grade assessments are in line with mine. I am putting it at around a 65, if it were not for that hit on the neck and spots, I would have put it at a 66+/67.

BuffaloIronTail

@jesbroken said:
If acetone did not remove the affected areas on the obverse AND I thought it might grade 65 or even 64, I would send it in and have it conserved and probably have a better chance at the higher grade. Nice coin. I like the die crack and die clash on the obverse, it adds character to an already beautiful coin.
Jim

Couldn't have said it better. Also notice the "chin whiskers" that were unsuccessfully removed .

Poorly struck top feather, but that doesn't affect the head detail on Black Diamond.

It might garner a 64, but I do like it at 63.

Pete

jesbroken

@BuffaloIronTail
I agree, Pete, the feather is quite weak, but with the hubbing deficiencies it can occur most places on this buff. But, as you said, with the outstanding head, chest and cape detail, my gosh, what a gorgeous buff. I mentioned that with the pcgs conservation the 64 might jump to a 65 and if so, quite the value jump. Regardless, at 63 price, great pickup.
Jim

robec

I have one in MS65. It’s hard to see a difference between the two except yours may have a bit more detail on the Buffalo. Based on that, and I know we shouldn’t grade based on photos, I would guess 65+ to 66.

1Bufffan

Nice looking '19 it's hard to get any grade in the High 65/66 range on Buffaloes they just do not come that easy but with the Conservation you may have a shot, the late teens and 20's are the hardest to get well struck, looks like you have a winner!

BuffaloIronTail

@jesbroken said:
@BuffaloIronTail
I agree, Pete, the feather is quite weak, but with the hubbing deficiencies it can occur most places on this buff. But, as you said, with the outstanding head, chest and cape detail, my gosh, what a gorgeous buff. I mentioned that with the pcgs conservation the 64 might jump to a 65 and if so, quite the value jump. Regardless, at 63 price, great pickup.
Jim

The feather being weak is more due to insufficient metal displacement because of the feather being almost directly opposite the head on Black Diamond.

Depending on strike pressure, and even with a hammered strike, that feather will end up weak. Look at 1924-D. They are ALL that way.

I really has nothing to do with hubbing, Jim. It has everything to do with STRIKING.

Pete

jesbroken

Thanks for the info, Pete.
Jim

jtlee321

Static images can only show so much. I'm far from the Buffalo expert that many of you are. I felt that it has a very decent strike. Here are a couple videos of the obverse and reverse that show the luster and strike characteristics.

https://youtu.be/izUed7lhMPM

https://youtu.be/jZM9E8jB1us

justindan

Great looking nickel in the video.

jtlee321

Well, I finally got the grades in on a handful of coins I sent in. They went ATS, as a dealer I know has a son who worked for PMG and submitted the coins for me under his discount. It took a couple of months, but the wait was worth it. The 1919 Buffalo above came back as a MS-66. I was very pleasantly surprised as I had originally put it at MS-65.

The submission overall was a mixed bag as they typically are. I had a couple Morgan Dollars that I thought were lock DMPL's only come back as PL (an 1897-S and a 1878 7/8TF). But I had a 1951 Proof Franklin that I bought in a set that was in a Capital Plastics holder come back as a PF-67. I had estimated it as a 66 with a shot at 67, so that was another win.

My last home run was a 1941-S Mercury Dime I bought in a ICG holder as a MS-67 FB. It graded out as a MS-67 FB PL. I had bought it because it looked PL to me and had just a bit of haze covering the flashy fields, so I took a chance on it and it paid off.

I had a couple of 1909 Lincoln Cents come back as 64's that really have me scratching my head. I had two coins go "Details" but not sure exactly what the details designations are yet.

robec

Very nice Justin!! It’s a great looking 1919.

jtlee321

Thank you Bob! It was one of those coins that the moment you see it, you know you have to buy it.

DollarAfterDollar

@jtlee321 said:
Well, I finally got the grades in on a handful of coins I sent in. They went ATS, as a dealer I know has a son who worked for PMG and submitted the coins for me under his discount. It took a couple of months, but the wait was worth it. The 1919 Buffalo above came back as a MS-66. I was very pleasantly surprised as I had originally put it at MS-65.

The submission overall was a mixed bag as they typically are. I had a couple Morgan Dollars that I thought were lock DMPL's only come back as PL (an 1897-S and a 1878 7/8TF). But I had a 1951 Proof Franklin that I bought in a set that was in a Capital Plastics holder come back as a PF-67. I had estimated it as a 66 with a shot at 67, so that was another win.

My last home run was a 1941-S Mercury Dime I bought in a ICG holder as a MS-67 FB. It graded out as a MS-67 FB PL. I had bought it because it looked PL to me and had just a bit of haze covering the flashy fields, so I took a chance on it and it paid off.

I had a couple of 1909 Lincoln Cents come back as 64's that really have me scratching my head. I had two coins go "Details" but not sure exactly what the details designations are yet.

Without even looking at them I'd suggest looking at Lincoln's coat on the 2 MS 64's. That's where they getcha.

jtlee321

@DollarAfterDollar said:

@jtlee321 said:
Well, I finally got the grades in on a handful of coins I sent in. They went ATS, as a dealer I know has a son who worked for PMG and submitted the coins for me under his discount. It took a couple of months, but the wait was worth it. The 1919 Buffalo above came back as a MS-66. I was very pleasantly surprised as I had originally put it at MS-65.

The submission overall was a mixed bag as they typically are. I had a couple Morgan Dollars that I thought were lock DMPL's only come back as PL (an 1897-S and a 1878 7/8TF). But I had a 1951 Proof Franklin that I bought in a set that was in a Capital Plastics holder come back as a PF-67. I had estimated it as a 66 with a shot at 67, so that was another win.

My last home run was a 1941-S Mercury Dime I bought in a ICG holder as a MS-67 FB. It graded out as a MS-67 FB PL. I had bought it because it looked PL to me and had just a bit of haze covering the flashy fields, so I took a chance on it and it paid off.

I had a couple of 1909 Lincoln Cents come back as 64's that really have me scratching my head. I had two coins go "Details" but not sure exactly what the details designations are yet.

Without even looking at them I'd suggest looking at Lincoln's coat on the 2 MS 64's. That's where they getcha.

I will do that when they get back. I don't remember seeing any issues there, but my memory won't be as good as actually looking again. Thank you for the advice.

BuffaloIronTail

@jtlee321 said:
Static images can only show so much. I'm far from the Buffalo expert that many of you are. I felt that it has a very decent strike. Here are a couple videos of the obverse and reverse that show the luster and strike characteristics.

Those 2 videos look quite different than the original pics. They show a lot more blast, and don't look as dull.

That is why I really do not like grading by pics.

Pete

Connecticoin

Did the spot come off on the reverse?

jtlee321

@Connecticoin said:
Did the spot come off on the reverse?

I think I soaked it in acetone, but I don't remember for sure. I'll have to look at it again once it gets back.

jtlee321

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@jtlee321 said:
Static images can only show so much. I'm far from the Buffalo expert that many of you are. I felt that it has a very decent strike. Here are a couple videos of the obverse and reverse that show the luster and strike characteristics.

Those 2 videos look quite different than the original pics. They show a lot more blast, and don't look as dull.

That is why I really do not like grading by pics.

Pete

I agree, that's why I had posted the video. They always seem to show the luster much better than a static image.