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90% silver pricing

JJMJJM Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

Whats the current X-face factor for 90%?, ive been a bit out of the loop for awhile
Thx

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Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Spot is 14x. I'd pay up to 15x for BU halves, 13-13.5x for run of the mill junk. Someone will chime in soon about how you can get 20x on FeeBay. At the end of the day you will still end up about 14x. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2022 6:45PM

    Wholesale to a major dealer is +9 for halves, +6.5 for dimes and quarters....no culls min $100 face.

    $19+9=(28x .715). or $20 x face
    25.5x .715. or 18.2 x face

    This is sell to a market maker price, no junk, no hem-n-hawin.

    Brick n mortar deals are a completely diff animal. But prob 16-22x range.

    Have a nice day
  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭

    I will pay 18x face no culls for halves you ship.
    I will pay 16x for dimes and quarters no culls you ship.
    More for BU and more for certain type.

  • PppPpp Posts: 453 ✭✭✭✭

    This is what I am seeing.

    Bid spot as of this writing is $19.24 (13.9x) from sd bullion
    Sd pays 19.2x fv for dimes and quarters
    Sd pays 19.7x fv for half’s
    Sd does require 500 ounces and I believe no culls.

    Jm buliion paying 19.13 fv

    I find getting sd numbers for smaller quantities (to resellers) is possible but most dealers are around four to three points less and most people are charging 21 to 24x fv right now retail.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2022 12:15PM

    @blitzdude said:
    Spot is 14x. I'd pay up to 15x for BU halves, 13-13.5x for run of the mill junk. Someone will chime in soon about how you can get 20x on FeeBay. At the end of the day you will still end up about 14x. RGDS!

    At the recent Denver Coin Expo, ordinary 90% silver coin was trading between dealers and the public in the range of 18.5x to 21.5x (times face value). Cash and carry. No fees (except transportation to/from the show). I sold a small amount I had at 20x. I could have sold a lot more if I had additional quantity that I wanted to part with.

    The claim that a seller could only net 14x in the current market is WAY too low. Just shop around a little and get 18x or more.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    The claim that a seller could only net 14x in the current market is WAY too low. Just shop around a little and get 18x or more.

    consider the gutter source.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • PppPpp Posts: 453 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with dcarr shop around. If i can get easily 19+x going to a reseller so could you. It’s all a matter of how much effort you want to put into it.
    🙂

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Last purchase of a $500 bag was 21.9 x FV selling @ 22.5. Well I was. It changes often. Premiums go up despite what pencil pushers and keystroke warriors put down as fact. Facts fluctuate a lot in this field.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Last purchase of a $500 bag was 21.9 x FV selling @ 22.5.

    Yikes. Even grocery stores have better margins.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2022 4:46AM

    @cohodk said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Last purchase of a $500 bag was 21.9 x FV selling @ 22.5.

    Yikes. Even grocery stores have better margins.

    And MUCH higher expenses.

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i just sold a common date franklin half roll for closer to 300, wouldn't sell for any less

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nice bu roll

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Last month I sold 12 rolls of Halves in XF to AU and averaged 20x. Silver is slightly higher since I sold.

    Work with an honest dealer and you should be in that ballpark.

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Picked this 90% up today at my LCS for 22 X face.

    The impulse buy 1913 Canadian sterling silver quarter cost me 5 bucks.


  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Last purchase of a $500 bag was 21.9 x FV selling @ 22.5.

    Yikes. Even grocery stores have better margins.

    I didn't get into this business as a matter of margins. So, I don't work too hard for nothing. Go figure.

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My LCS was charging 22 X face today for "junk" silver. I didn't buy any today. Looked like all the good stuff had already been picked over.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2022 6:32PM

    22 X face? sounds like demand is driving up prices. Can't be a supply issue, they stopped making 90% in 1964 - supply has remained pretty much unchanged since then.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    they stopped making 90% in 1964 - supply has remained pretty much unchanged since then.

    Another false statement, amazing…

    keceph `anah
  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rawteam1 said:

    @derryb said:
    they stopped making 90% in 1964 - supply has remained pretty much unchanged since then.

    Another false statement, amazing…

    You have to read your own interpretation into that.
    Reading between the lines...
    Circulated 90% coinage stopped in 1964.
    Sure some 40% till 1970 but 64 was pretty much the end at least for circulated.
    No more in production for circulation so production numbers stayed the same from that date on.
    that's what I thought he ment by supply remaining the same.
    NOT taking in to account the great melt era.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:

    @rawteam1 said:

    @derryb said:
    they stopped making 90% in 1964 - supply has remained pretty much unchanged since then.

    Another false statement, amazing…

    You have to read your own interpretation into that.
    Reading between the lines...
    Circulated 90% coinage stopped in 1964.
    Sure some 40% till 1970 but 64 was pretty much the end at least for circulated.
    No more in production for circulation so production numbers stayed the same from that date on.
    that's what I thought he ment by supply remaining the same.
    NOT taking in to account the great melt era.

    Where did anyone but you say "no more production for circulation" except you. The mint still to this day cranks out 90% gutter metal. THKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2022 3:24PM

    any 90% commemorative coins cranked out (in limited numbers) by the mint these days are not for ciruculation. You really should think before you speak.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2022 10:25AM

    What new US Mint coins are still 90%?> @blitzdude said:

    @rte592 said:

    @rawteam1 said:

    @derryb said:
    they stopped making 90% in 1964 - supply has remained pretty much unchanged since then.

    Another false statement, amazing…

    You have to read your own interpretation into that.
    Reading between the lines...
    Circulated 90% coinage stopped in 1964.
    Sure some 40% till 1970 but 64 was pretty much the end at least for circulated.
    No more in production for circulation so production numbers stayed the same from that date on.
    that's what I thought he ment by supply remaining the same.
    NOT taking in to account the great melt era.

    Where did anyone but you say "no more production for circulation" except you. The mint still to this day cranks out 90% gutter metal. THKS!

    Which specific modern current US Mint coins are still struck in 90% that you are referring to? The silver ones I have been buying are 99.9%.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The fractional denominations in Silver Proof Sets were changed to .999 a few years ago. I don't know if that also included the commemorative silver dollars, but it probably did because the rationale was that it was cheaper to use a single feedstock for all silver coins.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think the mint has done anything in 90% for a while. Didn't they switch to 99.9% many years ago?

  • jclovescoinsjclovescoins Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2022 1:27PM

    .

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From Feb. 2019:

    [https://coinnews.net/]

    U.S. Mint Ends Production of 90% Silver Coins
    By Mike Unser -February 20, 2019
    Say goodbye to the 90/10 mix of silver coins from the United States Mint. The agency is now producing silver coinage to 99.9% purity.

    Photo of a 2018 America the Beautiful Quarters Silver Proof Set
    A CoinNews photo of last year’s five 2018-dated quarters struck in 90% silver and 10% copper. U.S. Mint numismatic silver coinage in 2019 will be produced in .999 fine silver.
    The increased silver composition will be used for dimes, quarters, half-dollars, and commemorative dollars.

    "In 2019, any previous 90/10 silver denominations have moved to 99.9% silver, including Silver Proof Half Dollars, Silver Proof Quarters, Silver Proof Dimes, and Silver Proof and Uncirculated $1 Commemoratives," U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White told CoinNews on Tuesday, Feb. 19. "All other coin compositions remain the same."

    The 90% silver and 10% copper ratio is often referred to as "coin silver." The mix was a mainstay of U.S. circulating coins from the early 1800’s until the Coinage Act of 1965 became law. Its use returned in 1982 for modern commemorative coins and in 1992 with the introduction of annual silver proof sets.

    Actually, until President Obama signed the FAST Act in December 2015 which replaced the traditional 90/10 language with “not less than 90 percent silver,” the U.S. Mint by law had to produce silver coins for numismatic products like the annual sets in 90 percent silver.

    Advantages of .999 Fine Silver Coins

    There are several benefits in moving to more pure silver. As examples, when the U.S. Mint compared manufacturing data between the 2012 Infantry Soldier Silver Dollar in 90% silver and its .999 fine 2013 Proof American Silver Eagle, the following differences were discovered:

    National Infantry
    (90/10 Alloy) American Eagle Silver (0.999 Silver) Comments
    Die Life (coins per die) 600 coins 1800 coins 3X better with 0.999 Silver
    Scrap (Haze related)

    14% avg 10% avg 4% better with 0.999 Silver
    Customer Returns 2% avg 1.3% avg 0.7% better with 0.999 Silver
    Downtime (Cleaning dies) 80X/day 20X/day 4X less downtime with 0.999 Silver

    In terms of quality, the Mint has found that the copper in 90/10 alloy exceeds the maximum solubility of copper in silver and can cause coin spots and hazing, which drives higher scrap rates and customer returns.

    The "excess copper precipitates out of solution and can cause a buildup on the dies or could cause a harder blank surface," a Mint document describes. "The finished product displays varying amounts of breakup spots and haze."

    .999 silver also flows better under pressure, resulting in superior fills and fewer strikes to make numismatic coins.

    2019 Silver Sets

    U.S. Mint annual sets for 2019 with coins having .999 fine silver purity will include the ATB Quarters Silver Proof Set (for release Feb. 21 at $36.95), the flagship Silver Proof Set (for release this spring at $54.95), and the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set (for release this fall at $149.95).

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2022 1:17PM

    @Soldi said:
    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

    maybe premiums are telling us that it's the per ounce price (spot price) that is out of line with the actual value or worth of silver. If gold follows in physical silver's footsteps we will know this to be true.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:
    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

    Per 2011 you'd be correct. Or even a little back of melt perhaps.

    That was during a quick runup though. Every situation has its own parameters.

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:
    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

    During the height of the 1979-80 silver runup, bags of 90% were trading at around 25% below melt.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2022 8:28AM

    @Overdate said:

    @Soldi said:
    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

    During the height of the 1979-80 silver runup bags of 90% were trading at around 25% below melt.

    Hunt Brothers PAPER RUN UP aka "two billionaires go broke"

    (they took the subway to bankruptcy court) NYTimes

    I lived through that period and was an active coin collector. The dealers of silver and gold were many B&M coin shops. People lined up to sell silver and gold valuables they had owned for years and the shops were called "bucket shops" a pejorative term for numismatists of the time. Back then you either bought cheap to resell to someone called a "dealer" and then He went directly to Hammond and Hardy (sic) to have the "stuff" melted. One day I inquired with the dealer why the price was so low; Hedging he said; Hedging. Twenty five percent (25%) in back of melt wasn't a premium it was "hedging"

    One day ol Webb (Latham NY) filled his cream and blue lincoln continental Mark IV with sterling, and it had a huge trunk, only to return from NYC with it still loaded full of silver. What happened? He said; "I told them to pound salt" I wouldn't sell for that low a price"

    This time I think "I'll be holding the bag" having paid premiums for "stuff" In fact, I know I will, as I hear dealers saying; "don't worry about the premiums there won't be any when silver is fifty dollars" ($50)

    That tells me my premium paid is getting absorbed by the reality number? of physical selling for $50.
    (right now you can buy silver kilos for $1.69 over spot) <<<<<<----- what's that tell me? Silver is Silver, silver is silver.

    I said; "ME"

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Overdate said:

    @Soldi said:
    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

    During the height of the 1979-80 silver runup, bags of 90% were trading at around 25% below melt.

    In today's dollars silver was $200 ounce at its 1980 peak. Selling for 25% back of melt would be $150 ounce today.

    With real inflation running at 10%+ and The Fed set to LOWER interest rates next spring? $50 an ounce today ain't what it used to be. Not even close.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VanHalen said:

    @Overdate said:

    @Soldi said:
    I might be off the subject a bit, but I think the premiums are out of line with the actual value or worth of silver per ounce.
    If the per ounce price went to $50 per ounce; We'd see a .715 on 90% buy price without any premium return. Yes? No?

    During the height of the 1979-80 silver runup, bags of 90% were trading at around 25% below melt.

    In today's dollars silver was $200 ounce at its 1980 peak. Selling for 25% back of melt would be $150 ounce today.

    With real inflation running at 10%+ and The Fed set to LOWER interest rates next spring? $50 an ounce today ain't what it used to be. Not even close.

    Good Point.

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I over payed for these two 90% "junk" silver coins at the antique store today. 24 X face.


  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinHoarder said:
    I over payed for these two 90% "junk" silver coins at the antique store today. 24 X face.


    The question begs to be asked, Why did you overpay?
    What was your reasoning for paying 24x?

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:

    @CoinHoarder said:
    I over payed for these two 90% "junk" silver coins at the antique store today. 24 X face.

    The question begs to be asked, Why did you overpay?
    What was your reasoning for paying 24x?

    Since I was only buying such a small amount. I wasn't really concerned with spending a couple extra dollars. I liked the look of the coins, and had a craving to get a little 90%. I am a "junk" silver addict!

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2022 12:39PM

    @CoinHoarder said:

    @rte592 said:

    @CoinHoarder said:
    I over payed for these two 90% "junk" silver coins at the antique store today. 24 X face.

    The question begs to be asked, Why did you overpay?
    What was your reasoning for paying 24x?

    Since I was only buying such a small amount. I wasn't really concerned with spending a couple extra dollars. I liked the look of the coins, and had a craving to get a little 90%. I am a "junk" silver addict!

    There you go then.
    I once paid $18 for a barber half with a scratch.
    It was in tubes of Benjamin and Kennedy half's I was looking at for $10ea that a dealer just got in...as he watched me go through the rolls it slid out.
    The dealer said if you don't want that one I'm going to keep it but it's a little more money if you do...he priced it like he wanted to keep it.
    Helluva sales tactic.

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I called my LCS the other day. He said he was charging a little over 24 X face for 90%. No way. Hard pass! :)

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinHoarder said:
    I called my LCS the other day. He said he was charging a little over 24 X face for 90%. No way. Hard pass! :)

    I bet his buy price is more than 0.50% lower. Lol

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is the average X face premium for "junk" silver today?

    I've heard the price has gone up significantly.

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Though I have not been specifically looking for it, I did see a little over 22x face value. Not sure if that is typical. A couple of weeks ago, I saw 17 - 18 x face value, so I guess there has been a pretty good jump?

    ----- kj
  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stopped by the local coin shop yesterday and they were asking 22x face. They were down to a single $100 bag of halves.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Spot x 0.715 is the.base (melt)

    If spot is $24 then x 0.715 = 17.16 x face value is melt.

    This works for 90% US coinage excluding silver dollars. If someone' asking 22x face with silver at $24 the premium is about 30%.

  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JM Bullion is buying it from the public for just 20.8 x face….

  • fishteethfishteeth Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    what does everyone think of the huge buy sell spread of 90%. seems they may not be out of stock if their buy price was a bit closer to their sell price. if they are really selling a bunch at 28X face couldnt they be paying like 25X?

  • fishteethfishteeth Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    on Saturday the local dealer was only offering 16X but was demanding 24X, if he had any. Big surprise that he didn't have any to sell, everyone that walked in to sell 90% was leaving without selling, me included.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fishteeth said:
    on Saturday the local dealer was only offering 16X but was demanding 24X, if he had any. Big surprise that he didn't have any to sell, everyone that walked in to sell 90% was leaving without selling, me included.

    That's why they call it life in the gutter.

    Paper SLV works much better. No premiums and no lowballing dealers to deal with. Transacted in seconds. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wholesalers are offering $20x+ for halves. Little less for dimes quarters. Full retail BM that I see is 24-25x face.
    Crazy premium right now. Not a market I'd want to be in.

    Have a nice day
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2023 4:47PM

    @blitzdude said:

    @fishteeth said:
    on Saturday the local dealer was only offering 16X but was demanding 24X, if he had any. Big surprise that he didn't have any to sell, everyone that walked in to sell 90% was leaving without selling, me included.

    That's why they call it life in the gutter.

    Paper SLV works much better. No premiums and no lowballing dealers to deal with. Transacted in seconds. RGDS!

    Based on some of the offers I've seen you make on this forum, I would say that you are the lowest of the low-ballers.

    "No premiums" can be a bad thing. SLV has a negative "premium" which is guaranteed to become more and more negative over time.

    With actual (physical) coins and bars, premiums can go up (or down), but are almost always positive.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 5:12AM

    They call it (silver) money, where I reside. The gutter is aluminum. Such misleading online. That paper goes right back to bankers, then on to those with metal.

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