It’s very famous, has an impressive pedigree, and is widely considered to be a true accidental mint error.
But… I am not so sure!
Could it have been an intentional mint error and smuggled out? I find it hard to wrap my head around this getting mixed in with the stacks of struck $20’s that were each individually weighed…
On the US Patterns website, it is mentioned as a possible die trial set up piece:
I guess we will never know if it was an intentional mint error, an accidental mint error or a die trial set up piece.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
PEDIGREE gives the history of the coin’s ownership.
What gave this coin LEGITIMACY is that this gold Quarter was included in the group of proof error coins auctioned by the State of California, after the U.S. Secret Service inspected and released them, determining that they were legal to own.
Going back to my analogy, despite the fact that MLB recognizes Barry Bonds as the all-time home run leader, the legitimacy is questionable. The coins in question, while cool to look at, will always have an asterisk by them in the eyes of many when referred to in the same context as other errors that are inadvertent screw-ups in the minting process.
These are on par with overstriking real coins with fantasy dates. It's a real coin, but not really. To me an error are things that could actually happen in the course of production, not late-night shenanigans. One man's OPINION.
@3stars said:
These are on par with overstriking real coins with fantasy dates. It's a real coin, but not really. To me an error are things that could actually happen in the course of production, not late-night shenanigans. One man's OPINION.
Careful, now- you might get called a hater for saying that.
@3stars said:
These are on par with overstriking real coins with fantasy dates. It's a real coin, but not really. To me an error are things that could actually happen in the course of production, not late-night shenanigans. One man's OPINION.
Careful, now- you might get called a hater for saying that.
Most error coin collections contain mistakes that, at a minimum, got riddled out of coinage stream & then were spirited out.
I consider those as Shenanigan Errors too.
I'd LOVE to own the OP 1898 Gold 1970s 25c !!!
But I am certain I could not afford admission price, well unless a few more daylight.
I've been archiving error coinage since 1978.
There's some fantastic & thoughtfully executed errors over the last seven decades from all three US Mints.
A few fantastic off metals exist, like mated off metals Frankin Halves. Those are the 7-decade old examples that come to mind. I've collected error literature over time. Far out items get imaged, quickly sold, then drop off market for years, decades actually.
As far as I am aware of, this is the only 1972S dated proof Quarter that was overstruck on an earlier dated foreign coin:
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
It‘s definitely unique with a colorful history and pedigree, and one of the most dramatic assisted mint errors known.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
I just watched this twenty minute video, which addressed and answered most of the questions
and concerns raised in this thread. Truly fascinating, and I hope you enjoy it!
.
.
David- I viewed this video when it came out. It’s an excellent interview of Fred Weinberg and some of his error coin adventures.
And a great explanation why the U.S. Mint does not try to recover error coins that are decades old!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@3stars said:
These are on par with overstriking real coins with fantasy dates. It's a real coin, but not really. To me an error are things that could actually happen in the course of production, not late-night shenanigans. One man's OPINION.
I feel the same way. I just don't like stuff that was made on purpose. I could care less if you like it.........go ahead and collect it.
No sweat off my back.
Just don't label me a "hater".
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@DFrohman said:
I just watched this twenty minute video, which addressed and answered most of the questions
and concerns raised in this thread. Truly fascinating, and I hope you enjoy it!
.
.
The video above is very informative for understanding why assisted errors (and other errors taken from the U.S. Mint) are allowed to remain in public hands and why the Mint does not attempt to recover them.
In the video, Fred discusses his friendship with Bill Daddio, former Chief of the U.S. Mint Police, and details their discussion about a group of mint errors in Fred's possession. The group included some huge die caps, too large to have left the Mint via regular channels, leading Fred to conclude that they must have been stolen.
According to Fred, Bill looked at the errors, recognized what they were and who had taken them from the Mint, and said:
"Fred, we figured out we had a problem. We figured out who it was, how he did it, we plugged the leak, most importantly, we put the fear of God in the employees. These [Fred's errors] are fine."
Fred continued:
Basically, what he said afterwards was that unless it's a '33 double eagle, '64 Peace Dollar, '74 aluminum penny, or maybe a gold coin that's stolen from the Mint, as long as it's not a current theft, they go, "you can play with them".
So if I had a die cap that was dated 1999, that's fine, but if I had one dated 2021 or 2022, the Mint would want to know, "where's the leak?". So that kind of became my mantra, that, with the exception of those famous coins, and a couple of others, if it wasn't a current leak, they were fine.
The takeaway from this is that the Mint (wisely, I believe) directs their efforts toward fixing and preventing leaks of errors, rather than trying to recover the coins, themselves.
Rather than protesting these coins, why not take our cue from the mint and look at the bigger picture. After every breach, Mint security improves, plugging a hole that can never be exploited again. These coins should be appreciated for the role they play in improving our Mint security, which is that much stronger today as a result of their journey.
Fred’s recollection of his conversations in his office, with the Chief of the U.S. Mint Police, are extremely insightful and explain why the Mint doesn’t attempt to recover error coins from decades ago.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Although I had seen the Fred video before, I watched the whole episode again. Very informative. Extremely appropriate for this thread.
As Fred says, there are 3 types of error coins. Manufacturing errors that get out on their own, manufacturing errors that get smuggled out, and mint employee created errors that are smuggled out.
We allknow that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for NumismaticClassification, they are considered error coins.
No matter how much a few of you want these coins to label something different, like "made on purpose errors", that is Never going to happen no matter how much you complain from your soapbox.
@IkesT said:
Any coin struck on a foreign object (in this case, another coin) is an error by definition. The error designation is given to coins that were made incorrectly. Most often, error coins result from mistakes in the minting process, but sometimes they are intentional/assisted.
No doubt the OP coin was made with assistance, but it is an error, nonetheless. Such coins are prized by many collectors, with the understanding that they are assisted errors.
Sorry, it’s not an error if made intentionally!
A error is a mistake
Martin
On a very popular series of modern day baseball cards there is a code to tell whether the card is an error.
@daltex
I dont understand. I dont do cards. Are you saying that the card company makes the cards with errors and they place a code on the card at that time to ID the card is a error?
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Although I had seen the Fred video before, I watched the whole episode again. Very informative. Extremely appropriate for this thread.
As Fred says, there are 3 types of error coins. Manufacturing errors that get out on their own, manufacturing errors that get smuggled out, and mint employee created errors that are smuggled out.
We allknow that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for NumismaticClassification, they are considered error coins.
No matter how much a few of you want these coins to label something different, like "made of purpose errors", that is Never going to happen not matter how much you complain from your soapbox.
Why are those who don’t like intentional “errors” and speak up about it, “haters” on a soap box, but you’re not a “lover” on your own soap box?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
We allknow that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for NumismaticClassification, they are considered error coins.
Yes, they are. But as @wozymodo correctly pointed out, even the basic dictionary definition of "error" is not strictly defined as being unintentional. Looking up "error" in several online dictionaries, many used words such as "innacurate", "incorrect", "imperfect", "deviation" and "wrong" to define "error". "Mistake" was also frequently used, and as I've just found reading further dictionary definitions, "mistake" is also not defined as being strictly unintentional.
In other words, the Numismatic definition of mint error, which does not require they are made unintentionally, is really not in contradiction with the word "error" as commonly defined.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Although I had seen the Fred video before, I watched the whole episode again. Very informative. Extremely appropriate for this thread.
As Fred says, there are 3 types of error coins. Manufacturing errors that get out on their own, manufacturing errors that get smuggled out, and mint employee created errors that are smuggled out.
We allknow that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for NumismaticClassification, they are considered error coins.
No matter how much a few of you want these coins to label something different, like "made of purpose errors", that is Never going to happen not matter how much you complain from your soapbox.
Why are those who don’t like intentional “errors” and speak up about it, “haters” on a soap box, but you’re not a “lover” on your own soap box?
Mark, I personally do not go to threads of coins that I do not collect nor like and make disparaging comments, do you?
Yes there are a few on a soapbox including me expressing their views. I like the coins I collect and stand up for them. I do not stand on a soapbox to tell others their coins are not legit.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Although I had seen the Fred video before, I watched the whole episode again. Very informative. Extremely appropriate for this thread.
As Fred says, there are 3 types of error coins. Manufacturing errors that get out on their own, manufacturing errors that get smuggled out, and mint employee created errors that are smuggled out.
We allknow that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for NumismaticClassification, they are considered error coins.
No matter how much a few of you want these coins to label something different, like "made of purpose errors", that is Never going to happen not matter how much you complain from your soapbox.
Why are those who don’t like intentional “errors” and speak up about it, “haters” on a soap box, but you’re not a “lover” on your own soap box?
Mark, I personally do not go to threads of coins that I do not collect nor like and make disparaging comments, do you?
Yes there are a few on a soapbox including me expressing their views. I like the coins I collect and stand up for them. I do not stand on a soapbox to tell others their coins are not legit.
It’s often impossible to know what type of coin(s) a thread’s going to be about, based just on the title. So I frequently end up seeing coins I don’t like. And I’m sure there have been occasions when I’ve made unflattering remarks about some of them. However, I attempt to draw the line at not telling others what they should buy/collect, while simultaneously advocating informed buying.
I have no problem with posters distinguishing intentional from unintentional “errors” and expressing their dislike of the former. That said, there are obviously appropriate and inappropriate was of such expression.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Numismatists exist in a very big tent, erected on a beautiful, lush
lawn.
We buy coins that we never plan to spend.
One must watch out for trolls on the grass.
You Sir, Are NO Hater !
Here's my favorite Buffalo Hobo which has inlaid copper & 24k gold.
It was carved years ago by the retired MR.THE
@3stars said:
These are on par with overstriking real coins with fantasy dates. It's a real coin, but not really. To me an error are things that could actually happen in the course of production, not late-night shenanigans. One man's OPINION.
I feel the same way. I just don't like stuff that was made on purpose. I could care less if you like it.........go ahead and collect it.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Is the new mantra on this coin forum, "Collect what you like and bash what you do not like"?
Not new....I went through this with W quarters back in 2019 and 2020
and have since stopped starting discussions about them. Some members enjoy the thrill of arguing 🙄
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Although I had seen the Fred video before, I watched the whole episode again. Very informative. Extremely appropriate for this thread.
As Fred says, there are 3 types of error coins. Manufacturing errors that get out on their own, manufacturing errors that get smuggled out, and mint employee created errors that are smuggled out.
We allknow that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for NumismaticClassification, they are considered error coins.
No matter how much a few of you want these coins to label something different, like "made of purpose errors", that is Never going to happen not matter how much you complain from your soapbox.
Why are those who don’t like intentional “errors” and speak up about it, “haters” on a soap box, but you’re not a “lover” on your own soap box?
Mark, I personally do not go to threads of coins that I do not collect nor like and make disparaging comments, do you?
Yes there are a few on a soapbox including me expressing their views. I like the coins I collect and stand up for them. I do not stand on a soapbox to tell others their coins are not legit.
If a commenter disagrees with the legitimacy of a coin posted here, they may say so. This is a forum, not a diary. Also, there is something to be said for open and honest discussion in the pursuit of truth rather than blind praise or glib advertisement.
If I might offer an analogy, think of carved Buffalo nickels. Many years ago Bill Fivaz showed me his collection of classic carvings hand made back in the Great Depression. Some of them were utterly amazing, and I remain impressed by them.
Now think of the modern "carvings" made on machines set up to make them in quantity. Both are legal, but I am much more impressed by the one than by the other. You my collect whichever you prefer, but do not insist that I share your enthusiasm.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
If I might offer an analogy, think of carved Buffalo nickels. Many years ago Bill Fivaz showed me his collection of classic carvings hand made back in the Great Depression. Some of them were utterly amazing, and I remain impressed by them.
Now think of the modern "carvings" made on machines set up to make them in quantity. Both are legal, but I am much more impressed by the one than by the other. You my collect whichever you prefer, but do not insist that I share your enthusiasm.
TD
No one ever called a Hobo Nickel an error coin though.
What makes this a little different from most intentional errors is someone had to sneak the coin into the mint before sneaking it out. No metal detectors on the way into work but certainly on the way out.
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
There are at least 25 known U.S. coins both proof and mint state, from several Mints, that were struck OVER struck foreign coins, medals and tokens as intentional mint errors that came from OUTSIDE of the Mints. These include but are not limited to Canadian coins, Shell Gas aluminum tokens, lucky charm tokens etc. Here are a few of them below. The Ike $ is actually on a struck Shell Gas Token, not a planchet.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Interesting to look at, but the more of them I see the more disgusted I am becoming.
I recall there was a mint in Asia (Malaysia ?) that cranked out a huge volume of all kinds of intentional "errors" that are seen as reasonably-priced novelties and nothing more.
I know that the pinnacle of US Mint shenanigans is firmly in the past, but seeing so many of these fabrications is not very inspiring.
Many collectors are fans of intentional mint errors, while many others are not. People collect what they like.
The prices realized in auctions, and in private sales, very often reach high 5 figures and low six figures, depending on the specific coin.
Clearly the Ike proof clover that sold in Heritage was intentionally created, but still sold for $105k, with an underbidder at $100k.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Yes Malaysia, as well as Chile, India and Mexico are known for many intentional error coins.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
To the extent they have value it is precisely because they are not still being produced.
Reading this thread leads me to believe that most of these spectacular and unique modern "errors" were from a limited time period and possibly the same person in SF. They seem to be famous - or infamous - due to those circumstances.
In my opinion these should be associated with that particular set of circumstances. They may be collectable and valuable, but they are not the same as unintentional errors. They should be viewed like other hoards or special groups of coins, almost like a pedigree. In my opinion, that might give them even more credibility and respectability.
Regarding the item at the top of this thread, the 1970-S quarter struck on an 1898 half eagle: It was made at the mint, but it was not mint-made. So it can not be a mint error. It can be owned or collected by anyone who likes it, but to me it's just a token.
Comments
I've noticed an unfortunate trend lately of people in some circles labeling as "haters" others who hold differing opinions. Sad.
I handled this amazing and unique $20 1851 struck on a Large Cent planchet in 1975, and eventually certified by NGC.
https://mikebyers.com/957291-002.html
It’s very famous, has an impressive pedigree, and is widely considered to be a true accidental mint error.
But… I am not so sure!
Could it have been an intentional mint error and smuggled out? I find it hard to wrap my head around this getting mixed in with the stacks of struck $20’s that were each individually weighed…
On the US Patterns website, it is mentioned as a possible die trial set up piece:
https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/185120oncent.html
I guess we will never know if it was an intentional mint error, an accidental mint error or a die trial set up piece.
It’s got a nice color
It's all about what the people want...
Going back to my analogy, despite the fact that MLB recognizes Barry Bonds as the all-time home run leader, the legitimacy is questionable. The coins in question, while cool to look at, will always have an asterisk by them in the eyes of many when referred to in the same context as other errors that are inadvertent screw-ups in the minting process.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
These are on par with overstriking real coins with fantasy dates. It's a real coin, but not really. To me an error are things that could actually happen in the course of production, not late-night shenanigans. One man's OPINION.
Careful, now- you might get called a hater for saying that.
I've been called way worse...
Most error coin collections contain mistakes that, at a minimum, got riddled out of coinage stream & then were spirited out.
I consider those as Shenanigan Errors too.
I'd LOVE to own the OP 1898 Gold 1970s 25c !!!
But I am certain I could not afford admission price, well unless a few more daylight.
I've been archiving error coinage since 1978.
There's some fantastic & thoughtfully executed errors over the last seven decades from all three US Mints.
A few fantastic off metals exist, like mated off metals Frankin Halves. Those are the 7-decade old examples that come to mind. I've collected error literature over time. Far out items get imaged, quickly sold, then drop off market for years, decades actually.
As far as I am aware of, this is the only 1972S dated proof Quarter that was overstruck on an earlier dated foreign coin:
@LindyS
Was this the mated Franklin pair that you were referring to?
https://mikebyers.com/franklin.html
Here is an intentionally struck fantasy pattern and mint error that is unique. When I originally purchased it, it was certified PR 62 by PCGS:
https://mikebyers.com/1846pattern.html
@LindyS stated:
“ I'd LOVE to own the OP 1898 Gold 1970s 25c !!!”
It‘s definitely unique with a colorful history and pedigree, and one of the most dramatic assisted mint errors known.
I just watched this twenty minute video, which addressed and answered most of the questions
and concerns raised in this thread. Truly fascinating, and I hope you enjoy it!
.
.
@DFrohman
David- I viewed this video when it came out. It’s an excellent interview of Fred Weinberg and some of his error coin adventures.
And a great explanation why the U.S. Mint does not try to recover error coins that are decades old!
I feel the same way. I just don't like stuff that was made on purpose. I could care less if you like it.........go ahead and collect it.
No sweat off my back.
Just don't label me a "hater".
Pete
The video above is very informative for understanding why assisted errors (and other errors taken from the U.S. Mint) are allowed to remain in public hands and why the Mint does not attempt to recover them.
In the video, Fred discusses his friendship with Bill Daddio, former Chief of the U.S. Mint Police, and details their discussion about a group of mint errors in Fred's possession. The group included some huge die caps, too large to have left the Mint via regular channels, leading Fred to conclude that they must have been stolen.
According to Fred, Bill looked at the errors, recognized what they were and who had taken them from the Mint, and said:
"Fred, we figured out we had a problem. We figured out who it was, how he did it, we plugged the leak, most importantly, we put the fear of God in the employees. These [Fred's errors] are fine."
Fred continued:
Basically, what he said afterwards was that unless it's a '33 double eagle, '64 Peace Dollar, '74 aluminum penny, or maybe a gold coin that's stolen from the Mint, as long as it's not a current theft, they go, "you can play with them".
So if I had a die cap that was dated 1999, that's fine, but if I had one dated 2021 or 2022, the Mint would want to know, "where's the leak?". So that kind of became my mantra, that, with the exception of those famous coins, and a couple of others, if it wasn't a current leak, they were fine.
The takeaway from this is that the Mint (wisely, I believe) directs their efforts toward fixing and preventing leaks of errors, rather than trying to recover the coins, themselves.
Rather than protesting these coins, why not take our cue from the mint and look at the bigger picture. After every breach, Mint security improves, plugging a hole that can never be exploited again. These coins should be appreciated for the role they play in improving our Mint security, which is that much stronger today as a result of their journey.
@IkesT
An excellent synopsis of Fred’s interview!
Fred’s recollection of his conversations in his office, with the Chief of the U.S. Mint Police, are extremely insightful and explain why the Mint doesn’t attempt to recover error coins from decades ago.
Although I had seen the Fred video before, I watched the whole episode again. Very informative. Extremely appropriate for this thread.
As Fred says, there are 3 types of error coins. Manufacturing errors that get out on their own, manufacturing errors that get smuggled out, and mint employee created errors that are smuggled out.
We all know that the third type of created errors are not "errors" that happed as they were made on purpose. What we are saying is that for Numismatic Classification, they are considered error coins.
No matter how much a few of you want these coins to label something different, like "made on purpose errors", that is Never going to happen no matter how much you complain from your soapbox.
@daltex
I dont understand. I dont do cards. Are you saying that the card company makes the cards with errors and they place a code on the card at that time to ID the card is a error?
Thanks in advance for a follow up
Martin
Why are those who don’t like intentional “errors” and speak up about it, “haters” on a soap box, but you’re not a “lover” on your own soap box?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, they are. But as @wozymodo correctly pointed out, even the basic dictionary definition of "error" is not strictly defined as being unintentional. Looking up "error" in several online dictionaries, many used words such as "innacurate", "incorrect", "imperfect", "deviation" and "wrong" to define "error". "Mistake" was also frequently used, and as I've just found reading further dictionary definitions, "mistake" is also not defined as being strictly unintentional.
In other words, the Numismatic definition of mint error, which does not require they are made unintentionally, is really not in contradiction with the word "error" as commonly defined.
Mark, I personally do not go to threads of coins that I do not collect nor like and make disparaging comments, do you?
Yes there are a few on a soapbox including me expressing their views. I like the coins I collect and stand up for them. I do not stand on a soapbox to tell others their coins are not legit.
It’s often impossible to know what type of coin(s) a thread’s going to be about, based just on the title. So I frequently end up seeing coins I don’t like. And I’m sure there have been occasions when I’ve made unflattering remarks about some of them. However, I attempt to draw the line at not telling others what they should buy/collect, while simultaneously advocating informed buying.
I have no problem with posters distinguishing intentional from unintentional “errors” and expressing their dislike of the former. That said, there are obviously appropriate and inappropriate was of such expression.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I see no haters !
Numismatists exist in a very big tent, erected on a beautiful, lush
lawn.
We buy coins that we never plan to spend.
One must watch out for trolls on the grass.
You Sir, Are NO Hater !
Here's my favorite Buffalo Hobo which has inlaid copper & 24k gold.
It was carved years ago by the retired MR.THE
https://minterrornews.com/news-11-3-22-exotic-and-intentional-us-error-coins-in-the-marketplace.html
I would be willing to bet that a lot of these things were made at the request of collectors who knew someone in the mint.
Not new....I went through this with W quarters back in 2019 and 2020
and have since stopped starting discussions about them. Some members enjoy the thrill of arguing 🙄
Surely the mint must have some security procedures in place to minimize the ability of employees to take coins out of the mint, i.e. steal coins.
If a commenter disagrees with the legitimacy of a coin posted here, they may say so. This is a forum, not a diary. Also, there is something to be said for open and honest discussion in the pursuit of truth rather than blind praise or glib advertisement.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
If I might offer an analogy, think of carved Buffalo nickels. Many years ago Bill Fivaz showed me his collection of classic carvings hand made back in the Great Depression. Some of them were utterly amazing, and I remain impressed by them.
Now think of the modern "carvings" made on machines set up to make them in quantity. Both are legal, but I am much more impressed by the one than by the other. You my collect whichever you prefer, but do not insist that I share your enthusiasm.
TD
No one ever called a Hobo Nickel an error coin though.
What makes this a little different from most intentional errors is someone had to sneak the coin into the mint before sneaking it out. No metal detectors on the way into work but certainly on the way out.
There are at least 25 known U.S. coins both proof and mint state, from several Mints, that were struck OVER struck foreign coins, medals and tokens as intentional mint errors that came from OUTSIDE of the Mints. These include but are not limited to Canadian coins, Shell Gas aluminum tokens, lucky charm tokens etc. Here are a few of them below. The Ike $ is actually on a struck Shell Gas Token, not a planchet.
Interesting to look at, but the more of them I see the more disgusted I am becoming.
I recall there was a mint in Asia (Malaysia ?) that cranked out a huge volume of all kinds of intentional "errors" that are seen as reasonably-priced novelties and nothing more.
I know that the pinnacle of US Mint shenanigans is firmly in the past, but seeing so many of these fabrications is not very inspiring.
Many collectors are fans of intentional mint errors, while many others are not. People collect what they like.
The prices realized in auctions, and in private sales, very often reach high 5 figures and low six figures, depending on the specific coin.
Clearly the Ike proof clover that sold in Heritage was intentionally created, but still sold for $105k, with an underbidder at $100k.
Yes Malaysia, as well as Chile, India and Mexico are known for many intentional error coins.
To the extent they have value it is precisely because they are not still being produced.
Reading this thread leads me to believe that most of these spectacular and unique modern "errors" were from a limited time period and possibly the same person in SF. They seem to be famous - or infamous - due to those circumstances.
In my opinion these should be associated with that particular set of circumstances. They may be collectable and valuable, but they are not the same as unintentional errors. They should be viewed like other hoards or special groups of coins, almost like a pedigree. In my opinion, that might give them even more credibility and respectability.
That is super cool. Definitely a prank.
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Regarding the item at the top of this thread, the 1970-S quarter struck on an 1898 half eagle: It was made at the mint, but it was not mint-made. So it can not be a mint error. It can be owned or collected by anyone who likes it, but to me it's just a token.