CAC sticker w/ JA vs. CAC holder w/o JA
zer0man
Posts: 47 ✭✭✭
JA will without a doubt mold the CAC grading service with his keen eye, but I can't imagine he will sign off on each coin being slabbed as I understand he largely does now when it comes to applying a sticker.
For some people having a stickered coin verified by "the man" himself is likely to be more desirable than having a coin slabbed by a grader trained by "the man" working for the new grading/slabbing service.
One man's opinion is not the end all be all, but as we've seen it sure can carry a lot of weight.
Does the possibility of JA himself not viewing all the coins submitted for the new slabbing service make a difference to you and/or do you think it will make a difference to the coin market? What do you think?
DOG acolyte
1
Comments
I am not certain that JA personally finalizes every coin stickered by CAC. Many assume he does but I don't believe he does.
I’m perfectly good with the fine-tuning that JA spent with his “experienced but new to CAC grading” coin graders. I believe the market will be good with it too.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I think that the best course of action regarding the new CAC Grading is simply to wait. Within a few months of the start of their services we will see how the market is starting to accept them and what we should expect going forward. Speculating at this point is pointless.
Coin Photographer.
Right now I would rather have the sticker on a coin that JA actually reviews, ten years from now is anybody's guess.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Do we know for a fact that every stickered coin has been personally examined by JA?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The big question is what happens when JA passes away? He was involved with our hosts, he was involved with NGC, and now CAC.
I’m hoping he lives to 120.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Everyone does. But we have to start imagining a post JA world. The man has a full head of gray hair.
JA is an expert numismatist, recognized throughout the hobby. His opinion is highly valued. I doubt he reviews every stickered coin. Coins have been resubmitted and grades changed. Remember, we are not dealing with standards, rather the grade is a subjective opinion, albeit, a trained one. The slabs will become a valued segment of the market, just as the stickers have. Patience.... All will be revealed.
Cheers, RickO
He has said he does.
Hey, I've had a full head of gray hair for over 30 years now (since I was 40). I'm hoping that 30+ years of my full head of gray hair doesn't mean my time is almost up, lol.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I believe I read on this forum in the past that JA stated he had a plan in place to change the style of sticker were he to meet his untimely demise.
DOG acolyte
He has said he does.> @zer0man said:
Irrelevant at this point since they are phasing out the stickers completely.
Not for 10 years, so relevant.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
If something ever happened to JA he's got Bill Shamhart whom I'd actually prefer stickering my coins as he gets far less emotional reviewing them. When Bill was a dealer and I'd stop by his table at shows no matter how knowledgeable I feel I am in this hobby I always walked away learning something which made me a better buyer/collector/grader.
I'd also like to say that I've been chewing on CAC becoming a grading service and although it initially didn't make much sense to me them stopping stickering. Reflecting on how I still mostly shy away from anything newly graded preferring older holder graded coins I welcome someone new.
I'm not convinced it is 10 years. But even if it is, they could simply accelerate the end of stickers should JA leave. So, I stand by "irrelevant " as we are looking at the end of stickering.
I cannot state with 100% certainty, however from what I have read and what JA has written he does currently see every coin that goes thru the sticker process. Now with time being split between the two operations maybe that will change but I doubt it will initially.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
JA stated he signed a ten year contract with CAC, so the 2033 date is correct.
Coin Photographer.
Correct, however he also said that it could be phased out far sooner "depending on collector interest". So stickers could very well be closed down anytime between now and 2033 should the demand for the service fall to low enough levels; what level is low enough has not been defined. My sense is that the price hikes will kill the demand enough to shut down the sticker business in five years; but that is just my guess.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
That is amazing. Especially considering the tens of thousands of generic, sub-$200 coins with CAC stickers.
Would you prefer him bald! LOL
The point is JA isn't going to be around forever and he's done so much that he IS the hobby, especially when it comes to the types of coins that CAC accepts for review.
I thought he said in a recent interview he intervened as a “tie breaker” for the stickering process. Not sure if that is the current process or future state, once CAC Grading Service is operational.
Tim
Not a sticker guy at all, have only a few, but if I was and concerned about ROI, a coin in a pcgs holder with a CAC sticker would far outweigh a coin in a CAC holder or any other holder. With the pcgs/CAC stickered holder 2 very knowledgeable groups of people have given their opinions on the coin. But then I would never purposefully purchase a stickered coin for its merit alone. Then that's my opinion.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
That is actually what he said in the interview for the new service ... if the 3 graders don't agree, he's available 24x7 as a tie-breaker. He also said that during the trial run they ended up disagreeing less than 2% of the time.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
He also said elsewhere that only one of the three graders have to disagree for the coin to be sent to him for review (3 graders never tie).
Coin Photographer.
Or the marketplace may want the sticker, as has been mentioned, the more eyes on a coin the better in the minds of some collectors.
As JA has said the marketplace rules.
If his CAC TPG holder - no sticker necessary. See his video. Sticker would only be on other TPG coins and eventually phased out.
In this way CPG Market Value for CAC would be consistent for both. Nice.
Then if you want just want CAC for new acquisitions you can buy his CAC slabs off bourse from dealers who retail them. Easy - just have plenty of cash.
I may try pickup a few when they come out sell cost plus from my table (shows) but wonder if want higher markup for ones I feel are A, really PQ. I have PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG slabs so why not some CAC slabs on menu.
That was before this announcement. I can't imagine him doing both if there is any volume.
In my opinion, having 2 sets of professional graders (e.g PCGS + CAC) evaluating a coin is not necessary but has a definite value. All else being equal, I will likely lean towards the stickered coins as compared to the CAC graded coins for this reason. Whether the market will agree is an entirely different story.
DOG acolyte
Right. As I understand it, JA will work with the sticker CAC for the ten years and go to the CAC Grading for a week out of each month (or some similar figure, I'd have to find the exact statement). He will make himself available for tiebreakers for CACG if needed (it seems they'll ship the coin to him).
Coin Photographer.
Edit - whoops, wrong thread