11th Hour Lg Cent Error Help, Off Center or Fantasy?
Numismaphile
Posts: 31 ✭✭
Wondering whether this looks real, I'm making an offer on it tomorrow morning and stumped. It's the right weight but looks too good, I saw it and it's either a good counterfeit or a valuable coin. Thanks.
Best Answers
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jmlanzaf
Posts: 35,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
I vote counterfeit. I wouldn't touch that without 3rd party verifications and/or a return privilege.
8's look wrong
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lkenefic
Posts: 8,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
Wow... looks almost too perfect. I love early copper, but errors are not really my wheelhouse...
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Walkerguy21D
Posts: 11,540 ✭✭✭✭✭
The reverse looks like Rev A, which is only used on N-1….but looking at the N-1 obverse, the digits look off, as does the position of the second 18. So I’m skeptical it’s authentic.
Now Fred or someone who really understands early coining methods can perhaps point out other flaws.
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dcarr
Posts: 8,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
The date digits are flat plateaus and the edges on them are too squared off. All the other details are somewhat mushy.
So not a US Mint product, in my opinion.Also, I don't think the US Mint utilized planchets with raised rims (from an upset mill) in the 1818 era.
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LanceNewmanOCC
Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
@Walkerguy21D said:
The reverse looks like Rev A, which is only used on N-1….but looking at the N-1 obverse, the digits look off, as does the position of the second 18. So I’m skeptical it’s authentic.
Now Fred or someone who really understands early coining methods can perhaps point out other flaws.
Still kind of cool; something I’d like to have if it was cheap.nicely done.
with the reverse rotated in the op image, i thought it was a match for n1 rev but once i rotated it back, it doesn't even match that as the S is too far clockwise past the leaf, so it matches no known 1818 reverse based on the 2nd S of States to the leaf below and the F of Of to the leaf. not even close.
even if it were the n1 reverse, as stated, it doesn't match that obv anyway, not even close.
i usually just can spot the fakes but nothing wrong with a good diagnostic run-down to make it a closed case.
i forget, do the mid-dates have NCs?
edited to add: the coin on the left is the N1 and OP coin on the right. none of the other reverses really come close to the S & F position.
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Answers
Appreciate your responses. Most 1818s seem to have a second 1 with a top that slants down toward a point about 60% up from the bottom of the first 8. However, I do see some out there that seem to have this die variety. The quality of the strike is good, but the metal seems too lustrous to be two centuries old.
offer $1 as it is a good study piece and then contact the authorities.
If I contacted the authorities for every counterfeit a collector had that he thought was real, they wouldn't have time... to chase all the dogs that get loose.
In my opinion not a genuine US Mint product.
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thank you Daniel. We just emailed each other yesterday! appreciate your expertise. Marc
I am highly suspicious, but would want to see it in hand before being sure. Looks freshly made.
Fake
Fantasy.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Obverse is instantly the giveaway as the reverse looks closer to legit.
Fake
I'm always amazed at how much some of you know about dies and varieties. I now have the piece on consignment, I told him if it makes him sleep better I'll send it off but with the expectation for it to return in a body bag. If we're all wrong it's worth four figures. But I'm sure we're not. Thanks to all who responded. Marc
here is an image from another thread. which, i don't recall. i just snagged the image.
Looks like lots of fake errors.
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Very revealing. Thank you!
China strikes again.
Many years ago a collector brought a "1796 half cent that was struck over a cut down 1796 cent planchet" with undertype to an Early Coppers convention. It looked brand new, and it was. The Chinese will make just about anything to order.
Counterfeit
All your thoughts and observations helpful. Thank you!