Crossover from NGC to PCGS
abdelmeg1
Posts: 84 ✭✭
abdelmeg1
Posts: 84 ✭✭
abdelmeg1
Posts: 84 ✭✭
Comments
I’m confident that the figures you reported aren’t indicative of the overall numbers. Are those your personal results or those of a few people you know? You didn’t indicate where the “almost 80%” came from.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I really believe that collectors as a group overrate their grading ability. The "crutch" provided with the advent of CAC has made it easier for those collectors to decide on what to submit for crossover.
My personal results. 80% (mostly $20).
None of those 80% crossover rate were CAC-ed.
Agreed
EDIT: Source https://www.pcgs.com/statistics
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
WOW ! Thank you for that objective piece of statistics. I was very lucky then. @lermish What was the date of these data ?
Presumably 8/25-9/24 or something similar. Possibly they only update at month end and it is for August.
But I just pulled it from the stats page moments ago.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I assume that data includes ANACS crossover attempts as well. Not a straight comparison of NGC to PCGS.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I'd like to see the stats for PCGS coins crossing to NGC.
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@abdelmeg1, my reply was predicated on your quoted 80% being an overall number and not your own personal results. Just the same, I hold that CAC has been a great aid in submitters deciding what to attempt a crossover with.
I have no idea how this number was generated or if it was just pulled from someone's nether regions but it is the only thing I could find as NGC doesn't publish their stats (at least I couldn't find them)
This is from thenumistacker.com
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Why would anybody do that ? why would you try to cross a PCGS to an NGC ?
ANACS would be a very small number, wouldn't it be ?
Why would anyone cross a coin from NGC to PCGS?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You think some people would attempt to cross an NGC coin with a CAC sticker to receive a PCGS coin (same grade, with NO CAC sticker) ? is there a $$$ reason to do that ?
Because, and correct me if I am wrong, the resale value of a PCGS coin is usually higher than the NGC resale value for the SAME coin. I guess if someone is sure that a coin will upgrade at NGC (and not at PCGS), that may be a reason to cross from PCGS to NGC (but How can anyone be sure of that ). Feel free to correct me.
Yes, because with proper record keeping and documentation, they can usually get a CAC sticker applied to the PCGS holder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The main resason for crossing from NGC to PCGS is the PCGS registry which is much more active than the NGC.
Good point, I did not know that you can transfer the sticker between TPGs. But, the question remains, why would you trade a PCGS CAC for an NGC CAC ? (is there a financial reason for that?). "Of course, I am under the assumption that the resale value for PCGS is usually more that that of NGC for the same coin."
I am waiting for PCGS cross over special so I can send lots of coins to cross.
Perhaps because some collectors value good customer service more than the plastic only, or because some collectors like to collect without concern about trying to squeeze every last cent out of a sale. From your comments in this thread these may seem like odd concepts to you, but there are collectors out there that are not dedicated and married to the PCGS only mantra that is well represented here.
Perhaps you would like to share your data to support your claim.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I would not assume this. I have had fantastic luck in crossing over. Having said that, I am very confident in my grading abilities and will often just crack them out instead.
Would never worry about cross over. There’s little difference between the 2. I would take whatever money to be spent on your preferred plastic and buy more coins.
I understand the registry argument but don’t personally care. I care about what I like and not too concerned about plastic or stickers. Ofcourse I don’t need to be number one anything. I’m quite content collecting what I like and plastic has little to do with it 😁
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I hate white prongs. Interferes with my enjoyment of the coin, especially smaller denominations.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
How about black prongs. I don’t mind this look
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
My feelings exactly.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Just an independent big picture it’s all in the deal guy.
Not a crossover hobbyist or care about the holder, sticker game. I cherry-pick material for quality and beyond that just markup or simply cost plus. Use money saved playing cross game buy more stuff add to inventory or spend on dining / entertainment. Mostly do world, mods, and currency nowadays.
Am a PCGS submitter and prefer PCGS but all kind of deals come my way on the bourse. So have all 4 accepted by eBay but my ANACS / ICG material (agree with grades on mine anyhow) under $150 so not worth submittal cost, so just leave those as is / markup accordingly.
Just not a submitter unless raw or think upgrade - play to win not lose or tie lol.
I tried to cross a few items from NGC to PCGS and all came back one grade less. I will let you all draw your own conclusions. So this is something I won’t be bothering with again.
Best of luck to all. I have no need to cross coins over since I only buy PCGS coins.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
You might very well have had the same results if you’d tried to cross a few coins from PCGS to NGC holders. I draw no conclusions, other than that you experience isn’t really surprising.
When assessing coins inside holders for purposes of potential crossover, both companies tend to take a somewhat conservative approach.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And this only states that they crossed but not at same grade?
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If you sent them in their NGC holders, they cross at the same grade or not at all (unless you specifically specify that you will accept a lower grade). If you do not specify a grade, the default is to cross them at the same grade or not at all (DNC).
Correct
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
They should cross at the same grade (or not at all), unless the submitter specify that he is willing to accept a lower grade (and why should anybody do that ?).
Couldn't they cross at a higher grade?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, they can RARELY. I had this happen 1 time 15 years ago. 1907 $10 indian ANACS au58 came back MS63 from PCGS !!!!
Hi Mark: I am going to take your rationale here (which I strongly agree with) one step further. "When assessing coins inside holders for purposes of potential crossover, both companies tend to take a somewhat conservative approach " if you feel that way (and I personally do), can we extrapolate that, the coins which crossover can be somewhat undergraded, AND therefore may be considered for a regrade ?? I know it is all about the individual coin and all that, but what is your feeling and experience tell you ? (Sorry I am not able to suppress the statistician in me).
No, I wouldn’t extrapolate that. Remember, the company which originally graded the coins was able to view them out of any holders. So unless they originally under-graded them, a crossover success shouldn’t be looked upon as “somewhat undergraded”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Some people only want PCGS for their collection and are willing to take a grade less to have that coin in a PCGS holder
I have two in crossover right now. I expect one to cross at the same or higher grade (but would be fine if it were lower) and one at lower grade.
The coin that I would accept at a lower grade is currently a 58 NGC. Here is why I am willing to accept a lower grade. I paid 55 money for it, it should be a 55, no one would pay 58 money for it based on its appearance (if I want to resell). Also, I participate in the set registry, I prefer PCGS holders bar none, and I love having a TV as my photo skills are nonexistent. (TVs are a great way for me to revisit my coins without having to drive to the bank!) I put that I would accept a minimum 55 grade if it crosses. If it doesn't cross at 55/58 I will sell it, lick my wounds, and buy another that better fits my goals.
The other coin, I said I would accept any straight grade, whether higher, lower, or the same. I really like that coin and don't care about the number on it but I do care about the other benefits listed above tied to having it in a PCGS holder.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I'll bet we've all seen under and over graded coins for both tpgs. Some people prefer a certain plastic over another and then there are those that choose coins of their liking regardless of the plastic. In my opinion, the only reason for crossovers, are for individuals who are only concerned about value. I would like to see comparisons of how much value was gained against how much was lost while attempting crossovers.
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If I had NGC coin w CAC would keep as is bc would price around CAC CPG - realize more money. Like 1926-S Peace Dollar that is MS65 CAC - CPG 1020 CAC but 910 non cac.
Does that mean "None of those 80% crossover rate were CAC-ed" but all were submitted to CAC and failed?
I don’t know about you but I’m concerned about value especially when I sell a coin.
There are several reasons that collectors submit for crossover. I suspect the main one is perceived increase in sales value (generally supported by evidence often reported here). I have not submitted any coins for crossover. I collect/buy what I like and only sell rarely (mainly bullion). If I were a dealer, I am sure I would consider doing the crossover dance, but the result in cash value would have to be significant - if achieved. Cheers, RickO
No. never submitted.
This is correct. Especially if you send a crossover ticket, an original image and /or the label they will resticker at a reduced cost.
Does it matter that some perceive NGC standards tightening and PCGS standards loosening ?
Those people are going to need to be more specific. When I compare my coins graded 15-20 years ago to ones graded now, the grading seems fairly consistent.
Most of us that judge/criticize TPG grading are still weaker graders than the worst of the professional graders, so it's tough to know who to believe.
It's worth having a discussion about precision vs accuracy. If PCGS is getting less precise, then they can holder more coins that would upgrade across the street without having have moved the "line" on where grades stand. The converse could also be true.
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