Die Terminology at the US Mint in 1794 - 'Tail Die' vs 'Reverse Die'

1630Boston

I just find this old stuff interesting.
From The NNP
The E-Sylum (11/13/2016)

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MORE ON DIE TERMINOLOGY AT U.S. MINT
Bill Nyberg, author of Robert Scot - Engraving Liberty submitted these notes on how dies in the early mint were described. Thanks! Readers can click on the image to read a larger version on our Flickr archive. -Editor
Some interesting additions to lasts week's topic on "head die" terminology at the US Mint and in the Wiley-Bugert half dollar book. The usage of "head Die" to describe an obverse die was first recorded at the US Mint in December of 1794 by Chief Engraver Robert Scot in his draft engraving report to Congress. This report was mentioned by authors Don Taxay and Robert Hilt, and was first published in the August, 2012 John Reich Journal in my article "Robert Scot's Engraving Report to the Congressional Committee on the Mint."

Scot also used "reverse Die" and did not use "Tail Die."
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An excerpt of Scot's report follows, along with an image of the same section of the original report, [shown above],courtesy of the National Archives and Records Administration, Record Group 104, Folder 14:
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"With a compleat success in the preceeding processes which has hardly ever happened, a head Die as above may be finished in a day. The same may be reckoned on the half Cent head Die, and the same length of time for the Dies of their respective reverses. All other Dies are subject to the foregoing preparations and incidental circumstances. The dollar Original Die [now called master die] for the head, will take six or eight days. The same Die for its reverse, nearly the same time; and after the Hubbs are compleated, a head Die for striking money may be finished in two days, and the same Die of the reverse in the same time nearly. The half Dollar Dies, original and others in all their various processes may take nearly the same time with the Dollar Dies under the same circumstances. The half Disme Original Die for the head, may take about five days, and its reverse Die of the same kind, six. A day for the former and a day and a half for the latter in finishing the Coining Dies may be sufficient."

ricko

@1630Boston ... The term 'head' derivation is obvious... and 'reverse' is logical. Where did the term 'tail' as a descriptor originate? Cheers, RickO

1630Boston

I'll need to do some more research @ricko
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The first recorded use of "tails" to mean the reverse side of a coin occurred in a 1684 comedy, "The Atheist," by playwright Thomas Otway. A character in the play advises someone, "As Boys do with their Farthings ... go to Heads or Tails for 'em."

As far as the coin toss goes, it is far from recent. Cross and pile was played in England for many centuries. The cross was the major design element on one side of many coins, and the pile was the bottom part of the die used to cast the 'cross' side of the coin. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1898) Samuel Butler used the phrase in the 1600s: “Whacum had neither cross nor pile.” (Butler: Hudibras, part ii. 3.)

Before that, it was done by the Romans, and was called navia aut caput ("ship or head"), as some coins had a ship on one side and the head of the emperor on the other.

1630Boston

????? The tail side name possibly originated from the British ten pence coin, the reverse of which shows a heraldic lion with its tail raised. ?????

ricko

Well now... Looks like we may have a mini-mystery on our hands... Might be as simple as the fact that the use of 'head(s)' simply inspired the reverse to be 'tail(s)'.... Cheers, RickO

asheland

Cool thread and subject. 👍

Kurisu

Agreed, fun topic @1630Boston !
I'm thinking the terms heads or tails wasn't as much about the coin, but the game of the toss itself...

Not exactly thorough research here but you all made me quite curious about this...
https://daily.jstor.org/statistics-of-coin-tosses-theater-geeks/

1630Boston

Not sure @ricko what this meant in 1870
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ricko

Well, it seems 'the boys' dialect came to be the common vernacular. Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway

A learned numismatic scholar, who must remain anonymous, offers this comment:

Editor's Note. Comments in the letter indicate it was written before dies for gold coins had been prepared, and also after only a limited number of silver coins - dollars, halves and half dimes - had been struck. The letter is part of a response to questions from Congress dated Dec. 9, 1794, which further constrains its date. The last date mentioned in the other responses is Dec. 19 further pushing Scott’s letter to the final days of 1794 or early Jan. 1795.

RG104, Entry 14 Box 1 “Undated documents”