It is time for the TPGs to start certifying Cheerios pattern reverse dollars pulled from circulation
CaptHenway
Posts: 32,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
I submit that it is no longer necessary for a TPG to remove a Cheerios pattern reverse dollar from the original holder in order to certify it as a Cheerios pattern reverse coin. I have now seen in hand two circulated pattern reverse Cheerios dollars certified by a major TPG. As we have long speculated, many of them were simply spent after being removed from cereal boxes. That is what many a non-collector kid would have done.
There was no trouble being certain of their attribution and/or authenticity. You can leave the word "Cheerios" off of the label if you wish and just certify it as a pattern coin with the FS number, but any competent Authenticator can certify these coins as genuine. THe grading is what the grading is.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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I would agree. I personally searched several hundred rolls looking for one of these as I thought the same thing. Never found one and Id assume that it would be even tougher to find one in circulation as now there are the Prez dollars to avoid in addition to all the other years of the Sac dollars.
@CaptHenway... I agree.... was not aware of certified ones found in circulation....but have long believed they must be out there. I will redouble my efforts. Have stopped at a lot of yard sales looking for one... Have seen coins, but no Cheerio dollars. Cheers, RickO
I still look but it really is a needle in a haystack!
I was using a vending machine last week, put in two dollar bills and the machine wouldn't work, so I pushed the coin return and the vending machine spit out two dollar coins!! Cool....I played that game until the machine ran dry....ended up with about 22 dollar coins, some sacs, some prez, some Sacs....pretty cool...no Cheerios varieties though.
No
There are pictures of the two certified circulated Cheerios pattern dollars that I saw over on www.cointalk,com
It has been done. The problem is getting coins to look through. I have this vision of a giant Treasury vault, like Scrooge McDuck's money vault, holding 95% of every small dollar coin ever made..........
How do you find a needle in a haystack?...... you gotta burn the haystack!
I have dollar coins coming out my butt in my neck of the woods. No one (banks) wants them. The only problem here is time and money.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Bump.
Yes. It’s long overdue. We should stop calling them Cheerios dollars and start identifying them as varieties like “enhanced tail feather” or the like. I’m also curious as to why these would be considered patterns rather than a subtype of normal business strikes.
Another excellent and well thought out response.
Yes, these coins need to be attributed even in circulated condition. It's an easy variety for any experienced authenticator to see and designate.
Coin Photographer.
Still looking Tom.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I believe this post is specifically about NGC being the one who are sticklers on putting “Cheerios” on the label, and David Lange either made that rule or was the person who strictly enforced it. Should be easier now with his passing.
Frankly I thought they already were.
I would guess 75% of them were spent but few of the spent coins will ever be found. Most are languishing in vaults or unseen in small hoards and collections.
I once had a nice chat with Tom Rogers, the designers of the reverse, and he told me that this design was his prototype, but that he was not done with it. Before signing off on it he deliberately changed the tail feathers to reduce the detail to make the tail feathers appear more white, as they do on a real bald eagle.
Many coins over the centuries have adhered to the ancient rules of heraldry, among which are the patterns of lines to denote colors. On a U.S. Heraldic Eagle coin the horizontal stripes translate to blue, while the vertical stripes translate to red. The plain stripes between the red stripes are automatically white, as are plain areas anywhere. That makes his prototype a pattern design. Unbeknownst to him, the Mint's marketing department worked out a deal with General Mills, and had the Coining Department strike (probably) 5,500 coins from a prototype pair of dies for shipment to General Mills or whatever company packaged the coins for General Mills. When regular production began, it used the new, revised design.
Bill Gibbs, of Coin World, once made the excellent suggestion that the pattern die coins be called "Reverse of 1999" (which could easily be abbreviated to "Rev. of '99" on the slabs) and the regular die coins "Reverse of 2000." I could happily live with that.
TD
Has a TPG ever actually refused to certify a Cheerios Dollar not submitted in its original packaging? If so, it’s news to me.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That's very cool although most coin collectors would consider them to be artificially toned. I hope you at least give them a long soak in acetone before you add them to your collection or you spend them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What should they label "Cheerios" Dollars that don't have enhanced feathers that come out of Cheerios Packaging? They can't be labeled "Cheerios Dollar" as they would be confused with the enhanced feathers already labeled "Cheerios Dollar".
See the bottom of this page. Note: The link to PCGS's site is dead.
smalldollars.com/dollar/page20c.html
Not sure, but all the graded ones with a Cheerios label are MS63 and above at PCGS.
https://www.pcgs.com/News/Cheerios-Sacagawea-Dollar-Found-Without-Enhanced-Tail-Feathers-Design
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
ANACS has slabbed two circulated one. I was under the impression that the other services would not, but if I am wrong I would be happy to withdraw the comment.
I can't say I really know what the TPGs are doing. I only assumed they didn't require original packaging because that seems like it would be the logical policy, and I've never heard anyone say it was any other way.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Dollars submitted in original packaging could be labeled
"Cheerios - Rev. of 2000"
or
"Cheerios - Rev. of 1999" for the enhanced TF design.
Dollars of the 1999 reverse not submitted in original packaging could simply be labeled "Rev of 1999"
Collector, occasional seller
Imagine if someone had the unopened box of Cheerios with the coin inside - would NGC grade the whole box like they do the GSA CC Morgan’s in the original boxes? 🤪