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Half Eagle reverse die, is there any chance this is authentic?




Sellers images…unknown provenance.
I would imagine someone here has the knowsis!
IF, IF this is legitimate what kind of value does it hold?

Comments

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2022 3:48PM

    Not a US mint die
    The details on the dye are not nearly sharp enough

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • 2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you Fred! appreciate your knowledge!

  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If a genuine die, wouldn't they have cancelled it? Or were only some of the dies cancelled/mutilated at their end of service?

  • dunkleosteus430dunkleosteus430 Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:
    If a genuine die, wouldn't they have cancelled it? Or were only some of the dies cancelled/mutilated at their end of service?

    I think most dies were just put in a furnace and destroyed after they were retired. Defaced dies where some of the design is still visible aren't as common. I think they are still melted most of the time, but they used to be sold as scrap or just left out to rust. More recently, the mint would cancel the dies either by defacing them completely (state quarter die sets) or putting a big 'X' on them (1990s Olympics dollars,) and then sell them to collectors. The state quarter die sets are pretty common.
    Still, some dies escape (Martha Washington nonsense dies.) Most of the time, though, dies like the example in the OP are reproductions or used to make tokens.

    Young Numismatist

  • GrantuGrantu Posts: 188 ✭✭✭

    Just out of pure curiosity what could one expect to pay for a non-defaced let’s say 19th US coin die? If those are even available? I’m sure that would be an awesome piece for a big time collector to have.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the above.

    I believe that the mint used the obverse die, not the reverse, as the anvil die. You can see how the genuine half dollar die above is a hammer die. The OP reverse die seems to have been fabricated to go along with the assumption the mint used the obverse die as the hammer die.

    Coin Photographer.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:
    If a genuine die, wouldn't they have cancelled it? Or were only some of the dies cancelled/mutilated at their end of service?

    Years ago I saw a die for a circa 1807 half dollar. It was much taller than the modern dies I have seen. It also had a die crack that ran from the die face to the base. It was not canceled.

    The ANA has an 1823 cent die which was used to strike the restrikes. When I get to my desktop, I’ll post some pictures.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And I didn’t even mention that the shape, base, & circumference are totally inconsistent with US
    Mint dies

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • MedalCollectorMedalCollector Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    I agree with the above.

    I believe that the mint used the obverse die, not the reverse, as the anvil die. You can see how the genuine half dollar die above is a hammer die. The OP reverse die seems to have been fabricated to go along with the assumption the mint used the obverse die as the hammer die.

    Why would you say that the posted reverse one dollar die is a hammer die? I don’t think there are any documented inverted die set ups for this series and little can be deducted from the photo given the angle at which it was taken.

    I’ve owned many US Mint dies, including a 19th century half dollar die and there is nothing in that photo that would indicate to me that it was a hammer die.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2022 6:14PM

    @GoldenEgg said:

    @FlyingAl said:
    I agree with the above.

    I believe that the mint used the obverse die, not the reverse, as the anvil die. You can see how the genuine half dollar die above is a hammer die. The OP reverse die seems to have been fabricated to go along with the assumption the mint used the obverse die as the hammer die.

    Why would you say that the posted reverse one dollar die is a hammer die? I don’t think there are any documented inverted die set ups for this series and little can be deducted from the photo given the angle at which it was taken.

    I’ve owned many US Mint dies, including a 19th century half dollar die and there is nothing in that photo that would indicate to me that it was a hammer die.

    I went off of this image of a modern anvil die where the die is set into the base of the die. After doing a bit more research, I see that you are right and there's no way to tell the difference for the Liberty Dollar series. I can, however, confirm that I was correct in that they tried to duplicate a modern anvil die. That was my mistake, I figured the mint practice was carried through the years but I guess not.

    Coin Photographer.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    By studying error coins you can often prove which was the hammer die and which was the anvil die. I have never seen a 19th Century U.S. error coin where I thought that the reverse die was the hammer die.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FWIW, I was working an ANA convention one time when a man came up and handed me an S-mint Seated Dollar reverse die and asked for an offer. I thought it was genuine and gave him what I thought was a strong one.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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