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Dealers... Guarantees... do you offer them?

yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

The thread on the 13 year return had me thinking... dangerous.

The genuine guarantee is logical if they can prove chain of custody.

Have often considered a buyback guarantee of some type, just to stimulate business.

This would be at market price with some wiggle room for a profit.

Just curious what guarantee you provide as dealers.

BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

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    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2022 12:35PM

    We always guarantee authenticity.
    Buyback guarantees are dangerous for B/M dealers because it enables the buyer to essentially use you as an approval service at little to no risk and tie up your inventory while they shop it around or put it online to see if they can make a buck on it... you can see the coin in hand and note any flaws so no need to offer a buyback. We will buy the coin back of course, but not at a guaranteed number, especially in a volatile market.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fortin has a buy back guarantee of CAC material at 85% of price paid. He is not a young man if one is looking at a long horizon.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On E-Bay I have 14 day no questions asked. I got one coin back in 2 years.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,078 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2022 3:49PM

    For more of a hobby seller, the ebay 30 days makes a lot of sense. I get as many coins certified as possible so there is someone besides myself standing behind a coin. I had someone in a financial pinch 6 months after a transaction and I had no problem accommodating. It doesn't open the floodgates as much as some people are guided by fears like that. I know a currency dealer who will always buy back what he sells, not sure what his margin is. The "all sales final" crowd give off an impression of one way opportunists, shifty. Standing behind what you sell has become a standard in major retail stores, it's what makes Amazon, Walmart and Home Depot customers keep coming back for more.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    For more of a hobby seller, the ebay 30 days makes a lot of sense. I get as many coins certified as possible so there is someone besides myself standing behind a coin. I had someone in a financial pinch 6 months after a transaction and I had no problem accommodating. It doesn't open the floodgates as much as some people are guided by fears like that. I know a currency dealer who will always buy back what he sells, not sure what his margin is. The "all sales final" crowd give off an impression of one way opportunists, shifty. Standing behind what you sell has become a standard in major retail stores, it's what makes Amazon, Walmart and Home Depot customers keep coming back for more.

    Retailers of merchandise, who stand behind what they sell, by allowing returns, don’t equate to coin dealers offering buy back guarantees for weeks, months or years.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    For more of a hobby seller, the ebay 30 days makes a lot of sense. I get as many coins certified as possible so there is someone besides myself standing behind a coin. I had someone in a financial pinch 6 months after a transaction and I had no problem accommodating. It doesn't open the floodgates as much as some people are guided by fears like that. I know a currency dealer who will always buy back what he sells, not sure what his margin is. The "all sales final" crowd give off an impression of one way opportunists, shifty. Standing behind what you sell has become a standard in major retail stores, it's what makes Amazon, Walmart and Home Depot customers keep coming back for more.

    Retailers of merchandise, who stand behind what they sell, by allowing returns, don’t equate to coin dealers offering buy back guarantees for weeks, months or years.

    One month should be more than enough with coins for buyers to make up their minds. Actually most buyers who want to return something do so in days. If they buy something, it arrives, they usually like it and forget about it if they feel it was a fair deal.

    Of course with consumables you get in the box stores or delivered the longer return options have a good reason.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Aside from the possibility of a counterfeit slipping through unnoticed (these can always be returned, no time limit) and nonsense eBay "SNAD" claims, I offer a 14 day period to inspect a purchase and return it if it isn't satisfactory. Beyond that, I may or may not be interested in buying the coin back sometime in the future. At some point, the deal needs to be done and when I'm a seller, that's at 14 days.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sold an 1884cc in PGCS MS63, toned very nicely, to a kid (well, his father) and told him I'd buy it back at the price he paid anytime (made him and his father comfortable). Well, four years later I get an email from the kid (now a senior in HS) saying he'd like his money back as he was going off to college soon. Send it back and I'll send you a check, he did and I did. I'm sure he'll remember that the rest of his life. Got a thank you card from his father about a week after I sent the check.
    Never heard from him again and it's been 8 years or so but would not be surprised if he pops up somewhere, someday.
    :)
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes I do. But not after 13 years.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

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    WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I offer 30 day, no questions asked guarantee on my ebay shop, 30 days is more than enough time for someone to decide if they want to keep it or not...

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

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    Glen2022Glen2022 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭✭

    Had the value of the 84CC changed any in the 4 years?

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    winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Catbert said:
    Fortin has a buy back guarantee of CAC material at 85% of price paid. He is not a young man if one is looking at a long horizon.

    Actually, I believe Gerry is in his mid to late sixties. As I’m 71, I think his policy of buying back coins with CAC’s that he’s sold at 85% of what you paid is fair, and unique in our hobby, and hopefully Gerry will be around for quite some time!

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There was (still is) a dealer who advertised such a 100% buyback credit towards a future upgrade when you come back and buy an upgrade from him. I bought a 1909 Matte Proof Lincoln Cent in PCGS PR65RB from him near the peak of the market in 2010 for $3000... I still like my coins, but not too long ago he was offering a PCGS PR66+RB example of the same date for $2950. Should I expect that dealer to honor that "buyback guarantee" by sending me the upgrade plus $50 in exchange for my current coin??? I didn't even bother to call and ask, I didn't feel like getting laughed at.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:

    @Catbert said:
    Fortin has a buy back guarantee of CAC material at 85% of price paid. He is not a young man if one is looking at a long horizon.

    Actually, I believe Gerry is in his mid to late sixties. As I’m 71, I think his policy of buying back coins with CAC’s that he’s sold at 85% of what you paid is fair, and unique in our hobby, and hopefully Gerry will be around for quite some time!

    Steve

    While well intended, I feel that offering guaranteed buy-backs based on a percentage of the selling price is extremely unwise. They can work out fine in a stable or rising market, but can be a recipe for financial disaster in really bad markets. Even great coins can suffer substantial decreases in value at certain times.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Catbert said:
    Fortin has a buy back guarantee of CAC material at 85% of price paid. He is not a young man if one is looking at a long horizon.

    Actually, I believe Gerry is in his mid to late sixties. As I’m 71, I think his policy of buying back coins with CAC’s that he’s sold at 85% of what you paid is fair, and unique in our hobby, and hopefully Gerry will be around for quite some time!

    Steve

    While well intended, I feel that offering guaranteed buy-backs based on a percentage of the selling price is extremely unwise. They can work out fine in a stable or rising market, but can be a recipe for financial disaster in really bad markets. Even great coins can suffer substantial decreases in value at certain times.

    It would have bankrupted every dealer in 1990.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,901 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Implicitly, most> @yspsales said:

    The thread on the 13 year return had me thinking... dangerous.

    The genuine guarantee is logical if they can prove chain of custody.

    Have often considered a buyback guarantee of some type, just to stimulate business.

    This would be at market price with some wiggle room for a profit.

    Just curious what guarantee you provide as dealers.

    A buyback with wiggle room for profit isn't really a buy back, is it? It's just normal business practice. Coin dealers buy coins all the time. If you aren't guaranteeing the price paid or some percentage of the price paid, it's not a guarantee at all.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Implicitly, most> @yspsales said:

    The thread on the 13 year return had me thinking... dangerous.

    The genuine guarantee is logical if they can prove chain of custody.

    Have often considered a buyback guarantee of some type, just to stimulate business.

    This would be at market price with some wiggle room for a profit.

    Just curious what guarantee you provide as dealers.

    A buyback with wiggle room for profit isn't really a buy back, is it? It's just normal business practice. Coin dealers buy coins all the time. If you aren't guaranteeing the price paid or some percentage of the price paid, it's not a guarantee at all.

    Agreed, it would be an illusory guarantee.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have only returned one coin, and that was to the U.S. Mint... A new, proof, ASE with an obvious scratch in the obverse field. Quickly replaced. Other than that, I make sure I am happy with my intended purchase prior to handing over cash. Offers of a return policy are nice, however, I have not had to use them. Nor would I consider returning a coin years after purchase. Cheers, RickO

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2022 5:07AM

    @ricko said:
    I have only returned one coin, and that was to the U.S. Mint... A new, proof, ASE with an obvious scratch in the obverse field. Quickly replaced. Other than that, I make sure I am happy with my intended purchase prior to handing over cash. Offers of a return policy are nice, however, I have not had to use them. Nor would I consider returning a coin years after purchase. Cheers, RickO

    You did use one: the Mint's. And didn't you appreciate that it was there?

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Catbert said:
    Fortin has a buy back guarantee of CAC material at 85% of price paid. He is not a young man if one is looking at a long horizon.

    Actually, I believe Gerry is in his mid to late sixties. As I’m 71, I think his policy of buying back coins with CAC’s that he’s sold at 85% of what you paid is fair, and unique in our hobby, and hopefully Gerry will be around for quite some time!

    Steve

    While well intended, I feel that offering guaranteed buy-backs based on a percentage of the selling price is extremely unwise. They can work out fine in a stable or rising market, but can be a recipe for financial disaster in really bad markets. Even great coins can suffer substantial decreases in value at certain times.

    Since cac offers to buy most coins they approve with very reasonable buy/sell spreads, and even have their own Coinplex dealer network, I fail to see how piggybacking on that is a bad idea. Since Jerry is dealing in esoteric Fortin varieties, it seems the demand is only going up and it may be seen as a savvy marketing move. He could always say the 15% behind quoted is based not on a past sale but on current Coinplex pricing.

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,047 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @winesteven said:

    @Catbert said:
    Fortin has a buy back guarantee of CAC material at 85% of price paid. He is not a young man if one is looking at a long horizon.

    Actually, I believe Gerry is in his mid to late sixties. As I’m 71, I think his policy of buying back coins with CAC’s that he’s sold at 85% of what you paid is fair, and unique in our hobby, and hopefully Gerry will be around for quite some time!

    Steve

    While well intended, I feel that offering guaranteed buy-backs based on a percentage of the selling price is extremely unwise. They can work out fine in a stable or rising market, but can be a recipe for financial disaster in really bad markets. Even great coins can suffer substantial decreases in value at certain times.

    Since cac offers to buy most coins they approve with very reasonable buy/sell spreads, and even have their own Coinplex dealer network, I fail to see how piggybacking on that is a bad idea. Since Jerry is dealing in esoteric Fortin varieties, it seems the demand is only going up and it may be seen as a savvy marketing move. He could always say the 15% behind quoted is based not on a past sale but on current Coinplex pricing.

    My post was about guaranteed buy-backs, based on a percentage of the original selling price. Piggy-backing on current buy-sell spreads, by offering a buy price at a level below current bids is an entirely different subject.

    But even in the scenario you just described, what happens when posted bids are reduced significantly or dropped, entirely? And what good is a guarantee that offers to buy at a level below what someone else is willing to pay?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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