Should I even bother saving copper (1981 or earlier) pennies?

Estil

So I managed to get another big collection of pennies (around a thousand, maybe?) and I was just curious if it would make sense to hold on to and save copper pennies (1981 or earlier)? After all we hear all the time about junk silver, why not junk copper?

OF COURSE you'd hang on to whatever Wheaties you might find in your rolls or change but what about 1959-81 copper pennies? Or is it not really worth the bother?

EDIT: NO I am in no way interested in melting them down. Just to save them (the ones I get at face value from CRHing of course) in case there ever comes a point in the future where "junk copper" coins are a thing similar to "junk silver". You know, where it's always worth at least the amount of silver or copper the coin has?

erwindoc

Currently they are illegal to melt, with a few exceptions. They take up a lot of space. I dont think it is worth it currently.

Estil

@erwindoc said:
Currently they are illegal to melt, with a few exceptions. They take up a lot of space. I dont think it is worth it currently.

The key word is currently. After all, did anyone care about junk silver coins back in the 90s/early 00s when silver was just $5ish/oz? And you don't have to melt those for them to be worth at least their dollar per oz times face value (so at $20, it'd be 20x or $2 for a dime or $5 for a quarter just for the silver content alone).

telephoto1

Agree with erwindoc above. Lots of hassle for minimal gain.
I always wondered though-If someone shows up with a block of melted copper how are they going to know from whence it came? Melted copper pipe and melted copper cents look the same.

JBK

@Estil said:

@erwindoc said:
Currently they are illegal to melt, with a few exceptions. They take up a lot of space. I dont think it is worth it currently.

The key word is currently. After all, did anyone care about junk silver coins back in the 90s/early 00s when silver was just $5ish/oz? And you don't have to melt those for them to be worth at least their dollar per oz times face value (so at $20, it'd be 20x or $2 for a dime or $5 for a quarter just for the silver content alone).

Yes, that's a point. BUT...silver was never illegal to melt. There no (legal) market for bronze cents as bullion in any form other than what they are now.

TwoSides2aCoin

One man's trash is another man's copper mine.

ifthevamzarockin

"Or is it not really worth the bother?"

Not worth it.
Your time & money would be better invested in other things.

Joe_360

Save them...

1st, copper cents ended in 1982, not 1981 (1982 was a mix of both copper and zinc).

2nd) Why not? I disagree that they take up a lot of space and let's face it (what hobby does not take up space - fishing gear/tackle, golf equipment, etc...) , they're worth more then 1 cent

3rd) Go thru them, you may find errors, and you can build sets (s-mints) they are selling on e-bay.

Bottom line, you can cash in "any time", and a penny saved is truly a penny+ earned.

I'm sure that many will disagree, to each their own...

Estil

@ifthevamzarockin said:
"Or is it not really worth the bother?"

Not worth it.
Your money would be better invested in other things.

Such as it is...

silverpop

spend them

coinbuf

I do not think it is worth my time, however if you are young and have the desire to stockpile, store, move around, and in general put up with the hassle of having a pile of cents around sure go for it. Here is the thing, by the time it might be worth it (assuming it would be legal then to melt them) the inflationary cost of holding all those cents that long will likely wipe out any financial gain.

Joe_360

Wait, I'm missing something...

Time? He not asking if he should drive around looking for these, he asked if he should hold on to copper...
Hassle? Find a cent, put it in a coffee can... (or one of those big plastic coke-cola bottle, admit you had one...)
Storage? Again, what hobby does not require storage? Does anyone own a lawn mover? water skis, home theater-(I do)

I agree cash them in, spend them on a case of beer, this way you can p*ss away two things at one time...

BuffaloIronTail

@telephoto1 said:
Agree with erwindoc above. Lots of hassle for minimal gain.
I always wondered though-If someone shows up with a block of melted copper how are they going to know from whence it came? Melted copper pipe and melted copper cents look the same.

Yep. But not all Copper is 950, and .050 tin and zinc.

People could tell the difference if they push the issue.

Pete

MasonG

@Joe_360 said:
Bottom line, you can cash in "any time", and a penny saved is truly a penny+ earned.

If you saved pennies in 2012 and cashed them in today, you would need $129.32 worth in order to buy today what you could have paid $100 for ten years ago. Saving pennies doesn't really earn you anything. Rather, they lose value over time.

Estil

@Joe_360 said:
I agree cash them in, spend them on a case of beer, this way you can p*ss away two things at one time...

I don't drink adult beverages actually...and you know what, I already got spotted this many for free (I even did a second set of folders for them) and they came in a huge plastic jar (it was only about 1/6 or so the way full though) so you know what? What the heck, I got nothing to lose (I keep Wheaties in separate cup...the pennies, not the cereal).

And I don't drive...if I could drive around for anything it'd be to call local banks/credit unions and pick up whatever rolls of halves I can.

Weiss

I guess I'm in the minority here. Every night, every copper cent since the 1990s.
I still get a kick on the days when I get to drop 3 or 4 copper cents in the jar. And believe me, those days are further between.
Zinc cents? I literally say "trash" when I toss them in the recycle jar.

Joe_360

@MasonG said:

@Joe_360 said:
Bottom line, you can cash in "any time", and a penny saved is truly a penny+ earned.

If you saved pennies in 2012 and cashed them in today, you would need $129.32 worth in order to buy today what you could have paid $100 for ten years ago. Saving pennies doesn't really earn you anything. Rather, they lose value over time.

I understand your logic but that is not completely true, we are in a recession (Thank you Joe) but prices and value changes continuously and, it is very depended on what you are buying. Silver was above $26 earlier in the year and had drop to under $20, maybe a good time to cash in those cents you saved and buy some silver...

We can debate this all day, I'll stick with Ben...

Joe_360

@Weiss said:
I guess I'm in the minority here. Every night, every copper cent since the 1990s.
I still get a kick on the days when I get to drop 3 or 4 copper cents in the jar. And believe me, those days are further between.
Zinc cents? I literally say "trash" when I toss them in the recycle jar.

You are not alone...

lkenefic

I held onto them for a while, but it just got too cumbersome. I had too much space devoted to something I was losing interest in. Fast forward a few years... I kept two rolls of Wheat Cents and one Lincoln Cent album and got rid if everything else. I had been recycling Wheat Cents and other change finds so that a Young Numismatist might "discover" them, but recent posts from a few board members has me rethinking that approach... I'll likely just put them in a "Giveaway" pile...

Joe_360

@lkenefic said:
I held onto them for a while, but it just got too cumbersome. I had too much space devoted to something I was losing interest in. Fast forward a few years... I kept two rolls of Wheat Cents and one Lincoln Cent album and got rid if everything else. I had been recycling Wheat Cents and other change finds so that a Young Numismatist might "discover" them, but recent posts from a few board members has me rethinking that approach... I'll likely just put them in a "Giveaway" pile...

Why stop at Lincoln's, throw some of those old dirty Indians in there also...

MasonG

@Joe_360 said:
I understand your logic but that is not completely true, we are in a recession (Thank you Joe) but prices and value changes continuously and, it is very depended on what you are buying.

I'm not talking about investments, as many do change in price (both up and down) regularly. I'm interpreting the "you can cash in any time" argument as taking the coins to the bank, putting the money in your account and using it for any sort of typical consumer spending. Does anybody here want to argue that a hamburger at Jack In The Box or a six-pack of Bud Lite at the market is cheaper today than it was ten years ago?

Unknown

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rip_f

The copper cent savers should also lobby the government to begin allowing the melting of copper cents.
The amount of copper recovered would allow us to reduce the amount of mining and smelting of copper - one of the most environmentally dirty processes there is.

Rexford

@alpha33 said:
I started throwing every cent dated 1959-1982 into a large canvas bag in 1982 or 83. To date I have nearly 15,000. They will never be worth more than a penny to me but my granddaughter will do OK. My father started throwing Indian cents into a sack shortly after WW2, my brother and I split up about 10,000 after he died. Thanks Dad.

So after forty years that’s only $150, and that very heavy $150 will have to be dragged to the bank to exchange for cash by whoever wants to spend it.

Yorkshireman

@ifthevamzarockin said:
"Or is it not really worth the bother?"

Not worth it.
Your time & money would be better invested in other things.

I would think the time of anyone with enough resources to collect ANY KIND of coins would be better spent doing something else besides hoarding older pennies from circulation,

Joe_360

@Rexford said:

@alpha33 said:
I started throwing every cent dated 1959-1982 into a large canvas bag in 1982 or 83. To date I have nearly 15,000. They will never be worth more than a penny to me but my granddaughter will do OK. My father started throwing Indian cents into a sack shortly after WW2, my brother and I split up about 10,000 after he died. Thanks Dad.

So after forty years that’s only $150, and that very heavy $150 will have to be dragged to the bank to exchange for cash by whoever wants to spend it.

Good thing my other hobby is weightlifting. I have a full gym in my house, that takes up a lot of room also

CoinHoarder

Cash them in and buy silver. Having said that, I have a whole bunch of cents. They become a burden over time.

privatecoin

Make it worthwhile to spend them. End the UnFederal Reserve that's destroyed the dollar.

WaterSport

To my knowledge, No one has ever gotten rich sitting on a pile of wheat cents. Just spend the darn things and buy something you really need for your collection.

WS

messydesk

They take up a lot of space and time and don't pay rent. I'd invest my resources elsewhere.

3stars

Copper is not rare. About as common as aluminum, and cans can be worth five cents instead of one

Raybo

@Estil said:
So I managed to get another big collection of pennies (around a thousand, maybe?) and I was just curious if it would make sense to hold on to and save copper pennies (1981 or earlier)? After all we hear all the time about junk silver, why not junk copper?

OF COURSE you'd hang on to whatever Wheaties you might find in your rolls or change but what about 1959-81 copper pennies? Or is it not really worth the bother?

I think someone beat you to it.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/819143/my-wheat-cents-hoard/p1

rec78

Even though it has been forty years since copper cents have been minted. The government is not likely to end the ban of melting them down anytime soon. You may have to save them for another 40 years. Better to buy silver and gold, not copper, simply because it takes up too much room!! Storage becomes a problem and what if you have to move them all of a sudden?
You could make a similar case for saving nickels because they are worth more in metal value right now than face value.
Even silver coins become cumbersome after a few years of obtaining them. Gold coins, not so much, who in the middle class world can afford to purchase more than a couple hundred gold coins in their entire lifetime?

Estil

@Raybo said:

@Estil said:
So I managed to get another big collection of pennies (around a thousand, maybe?) and I was just curious if it would make sense to hold on to and save copper pennies (1981 or earlier)? After all we hear all the time about junk silver, why not junk copper?

OF COURSE you'd hang on to whatever Wheaties you might find in your rolls or change but what about 1959-81 copper pennies? Or is it not really worth the bother?

I think someone beat you to it.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/819143/my-wheat-cents-hoard/p1

That's something totally different. For starters I bet he didn't get them at face value!! If I could afford to do that I'd just as soon use that money to work on a nice silver coin and early 70s baseball card sets!

Just so everyone knows, I have none, ZERO interest in melting down these pennies (having someone else do it even if legal would cost way too much and as Marge Simpson said in that dog operation episode, I am NOT going to try to do it myself!!). The idea is to save them and hope they can someday be used as "junk copper" coins like we do "junk silver" coins today. And of course, to save them out of rolls or change I get at regular face value just as I do with coin roll hunting...in both cases I feel like I have nothing to lose.

Of course it goes with out saying I hang on to any Wheaties I'm lucky enough to find in my rolls...I'm impressed they still show up occasionally and those are at least 65 years old! I even still regularly find nickels from the 50s and even 40s (not counting war nickels)!

jmlanzaf

@Estil said:

@erwindoc said:
Currently they are illegal to melt, with a few exceptions. They take up a lot of space. I dont think it is worth it currently.

The key word is currently. After all, did anyone care about junk silver coins back in the 90s/early 00s when silver was just $5ish/oz? And you don't have to melt those for them to be worth at least their dollar per oz times face value (so at $20, it'd be 20x or $2 for a dime or $5 for a quarter just for the silver content alone).

They will NEVER be worth it. Silver is $3+ per POUND with $1.50 face value. What would the price of copper need to be to make them worth the cost of shipping and smelting?

And yes, people cared about silver in the 90s at $5 per ounce. They even cared about silver in the 60s at $1 per ounce. But at $1 per ounce silver was still 5x more expense than copper.

Joe_360

Okay, let's break this down:

• Space: Your wife's shoe collection takes up more room, and what about all those old DVD's you have lying around, those bicycles that you don't ride anymore...
• Investment: No one would say that copper cent should be your investment, it's a hobby, investments are what 401k's, stocks, and CD's are for - I doubt that your silver hoarding will allow you to retire. Truthfully, those original Matchbox cars and G.I Joe's from the 60's are worth more then most of your silver and take up more room then pennies...
• Time: No one says to spend every day collecting copper, CRH, change, Coin Star, you collect over time, it builds. Heck, a round of golf takes a full day, it's a hobby...
• Melt: See below, there are other options that seem to work, 105 transactions, and not even all copper...
• 

MrEureka

It probably won’t be long before the cent is discontinued and withdrawn from circulation. At that point, I can’t imagine anything will prevent us from melting our coins.

Joe_360

@jmlanzaf said:

@Estil said:

@erwindoc said:
Currently they are illegal to melt, with a few exceptions. They take up a lot of space. I dont think it is worth it currently.

The key word is currently. After all, did anyone care about junk silver coins back in the 90s/early 00s when silver was just $5ish/oz? And you don't have to melt those for them to be worth at least their dollar per oz times face value (so at $20, it'd be 20x or $2 for a dime or $5 for a quarter just for the silver content alone).

They will NEVER be worth it. Silver is $3+ per POUND with $1.50 face value. What would the price of copper need to be to make them worth the cost of shipping and smelting?

And yes, people cared about silver in the 90s at $5 per ounce. They even cared about silver in the 60s at $1 per ounce. But at $1 per ounce silver was still 5x more expense than copper.

@jmlanzaf
First of all, I respect you entirely!

But why does it have to be one of the other? Why can't silver and copper live in harmony?

I enjoy all of my collections, regardless of the pay-off, at the end of the day, for me that's all that matters..

Today's world and economy is so unstable, who can predict what may happen?

Also, is you math correct? "Silver is $3+ per POUND with $1.50 face value".

It take about 5.5 silver quarters ($1.25) to equal one ounce of silver

Weiss

Lot of haters for such an innocuous thing.

For those who don't know, our hosts sponsor a handy website that actually shows the melt value of pretty much all US coins and coins from Mexico and Canada:

https://www.coinflation.com/unitedstates/

These figures are all based on melt value as of today, August 19, 2022. Pre-82 copper cents are worth nearly 2.5 times their face value--multiples of the other coins in circulation. You going to get an instant 250% in a CD right now? In the S&P? Imagine if every dollar coin was worth $2.50. How long do you think they'd stay in circulation?

Gresham's Law is real. Don't break it.

Treashunt

By the time that you will be allowed to sell them for copper value you & I will be way over 100 years old.

Punt

Weiss

@Treashunt said:
By the time that you will be allowed to sell them for copper value you & I will be way over 100 years old.

Punt

I don't even begin to get this logic.

Pre-1965 silver has been traded as one of the most common forms of silver ownership for at least half a century now.

Sure, it's being melted. But it's also traded sight-unseen in $1000 face bags and $5 rolls--and everything in between, just as it has for decades. I'd rather have a few nice rolls of Franklin halves than a generic 100 ounce bar of silver. Wouldn't you?

jmlanzaf

@Weiss said:
Lot of haters for such an innocuous thing.

For those who don't know, our hosts sponsor a handy website that actually shows the melt value of pretty much all US coins and coins from Mexico and Canada:

https://www.coinflation.com/unitedstates/

These figures are all based on melt value as of today, August 19, 2022. Pre-82 copper cents are worth nearly 2.5 times their face value--multiples of the other coins in circulation. You going to get an instant 250% in a CD right now? In the S&P? Imagine if every dollar coin was worth $2.50. How long do you think they'd stay in circulation?

Gresham's Law is real. Don't break it.

Except there's no good way to realize that gain. Even if you could melt them, you'd need thousands of them just to pay for the trip to the refinery.

Joe_360

105 transaction at a mean sale price of ~$15.00 is $1575.00. You could buy quiet a few silver Morgan's with that...

100 cents is less then a pound (~133)

@Weiss said:
Lot of haters for such an innocuous thing.

For those who don't know, our hosts sponsor a handy website that actually shows the melt value of pretty much all US coins and coins from Mexico and Canada:

https://www.coinflation.com/unitedstates/

These figures are all based on melt value as of today, August 19, 2022. Pre-82 copper cents are worth nearly 2.5 times their face value--multiples of the other coins in circulation. You going to get an instant 250% in a CD right now? In the S&P? Imagine if every dollar coin was worth $2.50. How long do you think they'd stay in circulation?

Gresham's Law is real. Don't break it.

Hi, I really like your post, thank you! You said, "Lot of haters for such an innocuous thing" I don't see it as haters, as much as a good debate on the topic. Seems to be a very digital topic.

But I do agree with you on not understanding the oppositions logic:

I have read:
"Won't pay the rent" Very true, but isn't that the reason we have jobs?
"Aluminum cans are worth more" Maybe, but you have to dig in trash for Al cans, copper cent are handed to me
"Silver is a better investment" True, but silver in the wild is rare, copper cents are still everywhere.
"Not worth the time" How so? When I CRH for copper, I am at home with my family, my wife puts on a murder-mystery and I watch with her while I sort through my rolls/cents - Is that a waste of time?!? Go spend money golfing!
"I would have to be 100 years old", try to relax and look through coins, and maybe you'll live that long

TwoSides2aCoin

Easy hobby to pick up copper cents for low to no cost.

To get a pound of copper (approx.) it takes 155. Subtract 5% zinc. A pound of copper ( pure) costs what ???? $3.60.
I mean if your going to put on pounds, that doesn't seem unhealthy. A buck per pound ?

Fewer people care about the lowly cent and everything will be reprocessed, in time.

JBK

I've said it on other threads but back in the day finding silver was a mixed blessing. Relatively low premium over face and hard to sell in small quantities. The opportunity cost (other opportunities lost by tying up your money in circulated silver coins) was high.

That's basically where we are with copper, except that it is not a precious metal, it is not very marketable in this form, and it is heavy/bulky for the quantities you'd need to have any kind of potential profit.

Copper is an industrial resource and presumably always will be. Silver is that also, as well as a precious metal investment.

Hoard copper at current prices and with inflation and lack of liquidity it is a terrible investment.

That said, I do save any uncorroded coppers I come across. 😀

Che_Grapes

Save em and someday your kids will have to deal with them

Joe_360

...and now for something completely different...

A man buys a 1955 rusted Chevy that is not running - Bad investment, should have bough a Tesla

• He stores it in his garage - waste of space
• He stays home and works on it in his spare time/weekends - Waste of time
• He buy parts to restore - Waste of money
• He gets it running and the chrome is shiny - Poor return, needs to much care
• He'll never see the returns - Good thing that he has a 401k, tech stocks, Saving, and life insurance

He sits back and enjoys his time, his efforts and the treasures that the common man cannot see

He passes on before any returns and leaves the rare auto to his Sons and Daughters

They smile as they remember the joy on their Fathers face that simple things bring, and memories that will stay forever on

My Father started my Lincoln collection, the value of collecting silver (1980) and the value of a buck for a rainy day, and I think about him every time I find and hold a good looking cent in my hand, that my Forum Friends in Priceless!

fiftysevener

@3stars said:
Copper is not rare. About as common as aluminum, and cans can be worth five cents instead of one

Aluminum is THE most common metal on earth. Copper is a much better conductor and much more appealing to look at.

AUandAG

As probably mentioned above: It cost more than they are worth to melt them into bars of copper. The gas used eats up the value of the copper. I watched a guy on youtube do it just to find out the cost of doing so. In the end he said it was not worth the time or effort. Spend em.

bob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPQDkKA4MLE

Estil

Wow; I had no idea you guys felt so passionately about this subject...

Again, I have none, ZERO interest in any sort of melting down the pennies.

Treashunt

@Weiss said:

@Treashunt said:
By the time that you will be allowed to sell them for copper value you & I will be way over 100 years old.

Punt

I don't even begin to get this logic.

Pre-1965 silver has been traded as one of the most common forms of silver ownership for at least half a century now.

Sure, it's being melted. But it's also traded sight-unseen in $1000 face bags and $5 rolls--and everything in between, just as it has for decades. I'd rather have a few nice rolls of Franklin halves than a generic 100 ounce bar of silver. Wouldn't you?

Sure, but silver is, well.. silver.

What has that got to do with copper, that it is illegal to melt.