Half dime question

spyglassdesign

I'm looking at seated liberty half dimes and I have a question about the reverse. The coin seems decent otherwise than the area above and to the left of the H in half, where the details look flat. I looked it up in my Redbook but couldn't find anything related to this area in particular regarding it being a typical weak spot. It's an 1872 if that helps.

Anyone have any data specifically regarding these? Are they just typically wildly inconsistent?

TIA.

FlyingAl

The coin looks pretty normal to me, although that red line is obscuring the area I want to see to make sure. Obverse pics would be useful as well. It appears to match about half of CoinFacts examples detail wise in this area.

c0injunky

Looks like a die clash there as well over by the E of Dime.

edwardjulio

Possibly incomplete due to clashed dies.

spyglassdesign

@FlyingAl said:
The coin looks pretty normal to me, although that red line is obscuring the area I want to see to make sure. Obverse pics would be useful as well. It appears to match about half of CoinFacts examples detail wise in this area.

I updated the op with unedited photos.

FlyingAl

Thank you, I confirm my statement with the exception of clashed dies and a possible cleaning.

spyglassdesign

@FlyingAl thanks. What is it that clues you in to possible cleaning? I don't see the obvious straight scratch lines I typically see in a lot of cleanings. Thanks!

P0CKETCHANGE

Look at the CoinFacts examples. Some are very well struck in that area, and some are even weaker than the example in your photo. Personally, I’d keep looking for a sharply struck and more eye-appealing piece.

FlyingAl

@spyglassdesign said:
@FlyingAl thanks. What is it that clues you in to possible cleaning? I don't see the obvious straight scratch lines I typically see in a lot of cleanings. Thanks!

I'm not sure it was cleaned, but in my experience that style of picture often results in hiding the signs of cleaning and the coin appears unusually bright to me. It just looks wrong to my eyes, but it could juts be the picture style giving me red flags.

MFeld

One of the pictures included in the coin’s eBay listing makes it appear to have been cleaned. However, even if it hasn’t been, when a seller describes such a coin as “GEM BU”, it’s a large red flag for me. Glancing at other listings from that seller confirms my initial concerns.

Far more times than not, buyers who “win” coins based upon descriptions and pictures like that one, end up with bad deals, as opposed to the bargains they think they’re getting.

spyglassdesign

@MFeld not sure you are looking at the same seller...

spyglassdesign

spyglassdesign

I appreciate your concern @MFeld. This is the seller https://ebay.com/usr/brencollin-5

All positive and everyone seems happy with their coins. But I do hear you about them phrasing. I don't go by the hype.

Smudge

@spyglassdesign said:
@FlyingAl thanks. What is it that clues you in to possible cleaning? I don't see the obvious straight scratch lines I typically see in a lot of cleanings. Thanks!

Maybe dipped.

MFeld

@spyglassdesign said:
@MFeld not sure you are looking at the same seller...

You tell me - https://www.ebay.com/itm/284873275432?hash=item4253c53828:g:750AAOSwxDRiua0u

spyglassdesign

@mfeld I misread your last post. I thought you were saying this seller had the problem you discussed of not getting what they thought they did. This particular seller doesn't seem to have that problem that I can see.

MFeld

@spyglassdesign said:
I appreciate your concern @MFeld. This is the seller https://ebay.com/usr/brencollin-5

All positive and everyone seems happy with their coins. But I do hear you about them phrasing. I don't go by the hype.

I’ve seen a number of other sellers with 100% feedback, who have sold counterfeits, problem coins and badly over-graded ones. They’re smart enough to allow returns, in order to avoid negative feedback. And buyers of their coins are often unknowledgeable and happy with their “bargains”. That is, unless or until they submit the coins for grading or show them to someone who knows better.

My observations and comments are based on having seen far too many unknowledgeable buyers bury themselves in coins over a long period of time.

FlyingAl

The last photo of that listing confirms my suspicions that the coin has been cleaned, which is the picture I assume @MFeld was mentioning.

You can note the almost brilliant surfaces of the coin in the image, which stands out when the issues that have been graded often have very heavy frosty luster.

291fifth

The half dime you picture appears to be cleaned or dipped. Pass.

lkenefic

Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. I'm sure most people are happy... until they go to sell.

This coin looks aggressively dipped to me... could be lighting, but I'd move on to a different piece. The card states MS65 yet they're o ly asking $350? Why would someone intentionally leave a few hundred dollars on the table and not send it to PCGS themselves?

If it's too good to be true...

spyglassdesign

Thanks for the feedback everyone. A good learning experience.

spyglassdesign

@FlyingAl said:
The last photo of that listing confirms my suspicions that the coin has been cleaned, which is the picture I assume @MFeld was mentioning.

You can note the almost brilliant surfaces of the coin in the image, which stands out when the issues that have been graded often have very heavy frosty luster.

Yeah I see it now. Thanks. The flat photos on the graded coins in coin facts can be hard to compare sometimes. So I will start looking at live photos of graded samples as well from now on because I could have easily overlooked that.

Walkerguy21D

@MFeld said:
One of the pictures included in the coin’s eBay listing makes it appear to have been cleaned. However, even if it hasn’t been, when a seller describes such a coin as “GEM BU”, it’s a large red flag for me. Glancing at other listings from that seller confirms my initial concerns.

Far more times than not, buyers who “win” coins based upon descriptions and pictures like that one, end up with bad deals, as opposed to the bargains they think they’re getting.

I use red flags like this at shows. If I see a few coins like this in a dealer’s case, where they are blatantly over graded/over described, and grossly over priced for what they really are, I generally move along. Chances are most of what he’s offering is a bad deal.

.

yosclimber

The lack of detail in the upper left part of the wreath is sometimes seen on the 1860-1873 half dimes.
And it can be much flatter than what we see on this coin.
It is not a feature of the dies, but is an indication of a weak strike.
This is true because for a given die pair and die state, sometimes the wreath is flat there and sometimes it is not.

And yes, this coin shows clash marks on both the obverse and reverse. These are frequently seen.

Here's an MS-66+ example where that upper left wreath is flatter than on the coin you showed.

You can see the variation in strike detail here:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1871-h10c/images/4398

Oldhoopster

Regarding the weakness in the wreath, notice the area on obverse directly opposite the weakness. You have the shield. That is a fairly substantial device for the metal to fill, especially out towards the rim. I believe there wasn't enough pressure/time for the metal flow to completely fill the devices, hence the weakness.

You can see the same effect on the reverse of some Lincoln Memorial cents around the OF AMERICA in the motto.

BillJones

Here's one that is graded MS-64. I like it, and it looks better in person.

Here's a Proof. This is not the easiest coin to photograph in an NGC holder.