Odds of upgrades at PCGS: Regrade vs Reconsideration ?

abdelmeg1

Hello:

Are the odds of upgrading a coin at PCGS higher with a Regrade or with a Reconsideration submission ? Any thoughts, facts, experience ?

Oldhoopster

It depends. Was the original grade too low? Was it correct?

Each specific situation is different. Without good pics, it would be nothing more than a wild guess.

MFeld

My guess is that chances are better via regrades, which are removed from their holders. On the other hand, “Reconsideration” submissions are reviewed and decisions made, while the coins remain in their holders. It seems to me as if graders would tend to be more conservative, when assessing coins through plastic.

However, if a coin is unworthy of an upgrade, it shouldn’t make any difference.

spyglassdesign

My last attempt at reconsideration was a 0. I've heard some people have better luck with regrade, but as pointed out already, if it was a fair grade to begin with it shouldn't change either way. If you don't care about the holder at all and you truly believe it's undergraded based on pcgs photograde, then I'd personally regrade. If you want to keep an OGH in case it doesn't, you are safer with a recon.

Also if you aren't looking under magnification such as a loupe, you could miss some of the reason for the current grade.

skier07

Typically reconsiderations are done if you want to preserve the holder the coin is in if it doesn’t upgrade or also keep the original certification number. Examples include coins in old green holders or copper graded twenty years ago that looks the same.

1madman

Definitely regrade

winesteven

In theory it makes no difference. The coin is the coin.

I don’t have data, but my strong perception is in the real world, Regrade would have a higher percentage of coins getting upgraded than Reconsideration, especially to the next whole grade number, which is very tough to get via Reconsideration.

With that said, if I have a coin that I believe merits an upgrade, I only use Reconsideration, but that’s only because of my particular collecting habits. My coins have CAC stickers, and with Reconsideration the cert number stays the same. With Regrade it must get a new cert number. If a coin gets upgraded with a “+”, but stays at the same whole grade number (like a 65 going to a 65+), then with the same cert number, for only $5, CAC will AUTOMATICALLY reapply their sticker without the coin having to be re-evaluated, since CAC ignores plus grades. So for me, I don’t want to risk losing the sticker.

Steve

ricko

@abdelmeg1... Is the purpose of the question just for general discussion? Or do you have a specific coin you are considering for action? If a specific coin, pictures would help, if not, carry on. Cheers, RickO

MFeld

@ricko said:
@abdelmeg1... Is the purpose of the question just for general discussion? Or do you have a specific coin you are considering for action? If a specific coin, pictures would help, if not, carry on. Cheers, RickO

Rick, if it's a specific coin, how would a picture help determine which option would have a better chance of success?

ricko

@MFeld... I am not sure it would help Mark. Just more for the purpose of understanding the motive behind the OP. The actual determination will have to be made by the OP. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall

@ricko said:
@MFeld... I am not sure it would help Mark. Just more for the purpose of understanding the motive behind the OP. The actual determination will have to be made by the OP. Cheers, RickO

I'd also like to see the coin to see if it has any upgrade potential. If it doesn't, why spend the money to send it back in?

winesteven

@ricko said:
@MFeld... I am not sure it would help Mark. Just more for the purpose of understanding the motive behind the OP. The actual determination will have to be made by the OP. Cheers, RickO

@PerryHall said:

@ricko said:
@MFeld... I am not sure it would help Mark. Just more for the purpose of understanding the motive behind the OP. The actual determination will have to be made by the OP. Cheers, RickO

I'd also like to see the coin to see if it has any upgrade potential. If it doesn't, why spend the money to send it back in?

While you are both correct, perhaps his purpose in making this post is more generic, and not regarding a specific coin? He might be thinking that if over time he has a few coins that he believes might be potential upgrade candidates, he's wondering which of those two methods would have a better chance of success? As @MFeld correctly says (and I believe we all agree) seeing a photo of the coin has no impact on which of the two methods to choose.

Steve

abdelmeg1

@winesteven said:

@ricko said:
@MFeld... I am not sure it would help Mark. Just more for the purpose of understanding the motive behind the OP. The actual determination will have to be made by the OP. Cheers, RickO

@PerryHall said:

@ricko said:
@MFeld... I am not sure it would help Mark. Just more for the purpose of understanding the motive behind the OP. The actual determination will have to be made by the OP. Cheers, RickO

I'd also like to see the coin to see if it has any upgrade potential. If it doesn't, why spend the money to send it back in?

While you are both correct, perhaps his purpose in making this post is more generic, and not regarding a specific coin? He might be thinking that if over time he has a few coins that he believes might be potential upgrade candidates, he's wondering which of those two methods would have a better chance of success? As @MFeld correctly says (and I believe we all agree) seeing a photo of the coin has no impact on which of the two methods to choose.

Steve

Exactly, @winesteven . I was asking about the odds of upgrade of Regrade vs Reconsideration IN GENERAL, and NOT about A specific coin. Let me rephrase it, In other words: if you do not care about keeping the original holder, and you have few coins that you believe might be potential upgrade candidates, which of those two methods would have a better chance of success?

winesteven

As noted by virtually all of the above replies, it seems like Regrade would be the way to go.

Not that you asked, but another method that some use is to crack it out themselves. In my opinion, while the chance of success is at least as good as the others, there are two big drawbacks to that method:

1. There is a risk you might damage the coin in the crackout process.
2. You then lose the PCGS guarantee of each of the other two methods which provide the guarantee of no downgrade. With that guarantee, virtually all of the time the coin will retain the same grade if not upgraded. In the very rare instance where PCGS feels the coin must be downgraded, they will provide financial compensation.

We've seen several (many?) reports on this forum about coins getting downgraded when submitted after cracking out.

Steve

Goldminers

I recently sent in 10 coins for reconsideration and received all 10 back with no grade change and a $750 plus invoice. One coin came back saying it would look better if restored. There were several expensive coins with those oval green stickers, and none upgraded even a plus.

Your results may differ, but I would listen to the advice above and regrade, but only if the coin is truly exceptional.

skier07

@winesteven said:
As noted by virtually all of the above replies, it seems like Regrade would be the way to go.

Not that you asked, but another method that some use is to crack it out themselves. In my opinion, while the chance of success is at least as good as the others, there are two big drawbacks to that method:

1. There is a risk you might damage the coin in the crackout process.
2. You then lose the PCGS guarantee of each of the other two methods which provide the guarantee of no downgrade. With that guarantee, virtually all of the time the coin will retain the same grade if not upgraded. In the very rare instance where PCGS feels the coin must be downgraded, they will provide financial compensation.

We've seen several (many?) reports on this forum about coins getting downgraded when submitted after cracking out.

Steve

I was cracking a coin out once and dropped it. I was not a happy camper. I’ve since refined my cracking technique.

Another problem I was discussing with a prominent dealer is the TPG damaging a coin when they crack it out to regrade it. Rare but it can happen.

winesteven

@Goldminers said:
I recently sent in 10 coins for reconsideration and received all 10 back with no grade change and a $750 plus invoice. One coin came back saying it would look better if restored. There were several expensive coins with those oval green stickers, and none upgraded even a plus.

Your results may differ, but I would listen to the advice above and regrade, but only if the coin is truly exceptional.

While I've had occasional success with Reconsideration, I do acknowledge it appears a better success rate could come via Regrade.

Steve

logger7

What about NGC, they used to have a "response regrade" tier?

1madman

@Goldminers said:
I recently sent in 10 coins for reconsideration and received all 10 back with no grade change and a $750 plus invoice. One coin came back saying it would look better if restored. There were several expensive coins with those oval green stickers, and none upgraded even a plus.

Your results may differ, but I would listen to the advice above and regrade, but only if the coin is truly exceptional.

1: Ouch

2: How many did you expect to upgrade? (Like were these 10 the best examples selected from a larger group of coins, or were these just chosen at random?)

Goldminers

@1madman said:

@Goldminers said:
I recently sent in 10 coins for reconsideration and received all 10 back with no grade change and a $750 plus invoice. One coin came back saying it would look better if restored. There were several expensive coins with those oval green stickers, and none upgraded even a plus.

Your results may differ, but I would listen to the advice above and regrade, but only if the coin is truly exceptional.

1: Ouch

2: How many did you expect to upgrade? (Like were these 10 the best examples selected from a larger group of coins, or were these just chosen at random?)

FYI, the 10 I sent in were the best examples for the labeled grades (that 3 separate people chose) from around 40 examples looked at. Did not matter, none upgraded.

And I just noticed if you send in a coin for regrade, they delete the coin from your registry sets when they crack it out for grading. So, until they grade and QA the coins again which can take a long time, I don't have complete registry sets now even though I own the coins. That does not make sense to me.

abdelmeg1

@MFeld said:
My guess is that chances are better via regrades, which are removed from their holders. On the other hand, “Reconsideration” submissions are reviewed and decisions made, while the coins remain in their holders. It seems to me as if graders would tend to be more conservative, when assessing coins through plastic.

However, if a coin is unworthy of an upgrade, it shouldn’t make any difference.

So, you feel (or know) that the grader will be always be more conservative when assessing coins through plastic (Reconsideration or crossover) ? Appreciate your expert opinion.

abdelmeg1

@MFeld said:
My guess is that chances are better via regrades, which are removed from their holders. On the other hand, “Reconsideration” submissions are reviewed and decisions made, while the coins remain in their holders. It seems to me as if graders would tend to be more conservative, when assessing coins through plastic.

However, if a coin is unworthy of an upgrade, it shouldn’t make any difference.

As a follow up, and by the same rationale, if the submitter doesn't care about the holder, then, Reconsideration should not really be considered, just go for a regrade. Correct ?

spyglassdesign

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:
My guess is that chances are better via regrades, which are removed from their holders. On the other hand, “Reconsideration” submissions are reviewed and decisions made, while the coins remain in their holders. It seems to me as if graders would tend to be more conservative, when assessing coins through plastic.

However, if a coin is unworthy of an upgrade, it shouldn’t make any difference.

As a follow up, and by the same rationale, if the submitter doesn't care about the holder, then, Reconsideration should not really be considered, just go for a regrade. Correct ?

That seems to be the general concensus. But unless you've really studied it compared to similar grades and those a grade up, it could just be a money dump. It should be a truly exceptional coin where the upgrade is a significant sales upgrade (if you plan to sell it). Or, if you believe it's that good you could possibly try for a CAC gold sticker, which will take away risk of crackout and wasting money.

MFeld

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:
My guess is that chances are better via regrades, which are removed from their holders. On the other hand, “Reconsideration” submissions are reviewed and decisions made, while the coins remain in their holders. It seems to me as if graders would tend to be more conservative, when assessing coins through plastic.

However, if a coin is unworthy of an upgrade, it shouldn’t make any difference.

So, you feel (or know) that the grader will be always be more conservative when assessing coins through plastic (Reconsideration or crossover) ? Appreciate your expert opinion.

I prefer not to use words like “always” (or “never”) and I won’t claim to know what all graders will do in a given situation. However, it would make sense to err on the side of caution when assessing coins through holders. That would especially be the case with Proof coins, which frequently have some degree of hairlines. And hairlines can be difficult to see through plastic holders, many of which are scratched up.

MFeld

@abdelmeg1 said:

@MFeld said:
My guess is that chances are better via regrades, which are removed from their holders. On the other hand, “Reconsideration” submissions are reviewed and decisions made, while the coins remain in their holders. It seems to me as if graders would tend to be more conservative, when assessing coins through plastic.

However, if a coin is unworthy of an upgrade, it shouldn’t make any difference.

As a follow up, and by the same rationale, if the submitter doesn't care about the holder, then, Reconsideration should not really be considered, just go for a regrade. Correct ?

That’s my thinking.