Great week for the hobby? What happens to Tatis cards now after the PED suspension?

ndleo

What does the board think will happen to Tatis cards? I don't follow baseball that closely but has a young star like Tatis ever tested positive for PEDs? I think Ryan Braun was 29 when he got busted and he went from a MVP level player to an above average player. Braun's cards seem to be forgettable at this point.

Tatis is 23. Can he redeem himself and his cards?

ScoobyDoo2

I lost respect for him ... and therefore his collectability.

brad31

Himself yes, his cards to some extent, his ability to get in the Hall of Fame - probably not. If Bonds is not in, a hard line has been drawn that will not be softened by the voters. If a Veteran's committee inducts Bonds - it is possible that Tatis can get voted in someday. He is young and has a chance to mature and have this largely forgotten.

Will he still be a great player - I am betting yes, but there will be a ton of pressure on him to still perform next year.

Stinks for Padres fans many levels.

1) They went all in and got Soto - excitement had to be through the roof at Ownership's commitment and the chance to make noise in the postseason. With Tatis out - that is much less likely.

2) The franchise player leaves a sour taste. While over time that taste will diminish for most - some will have a tinge of uneasiness rooting for him that may never go away.

3) There is a chance he doesn't get back to form and then there is an albatross contract on the books.

BaltimoreYankee

This is a good reason not to 'invest' in current players. You know Willie Mays isn't going to test positive any time soon.

olb31

i played major college football. to get to the the pros in any sport takes luck and unbelievable effort. the amount of fame and $$$ involved is something that's hard to overlook. if you have a chance to get there or stay there means that some people will cross the line. it's very naive to believe that a majority of pro and college players aren't doing something to help themselves.

ScoobyDoo2

@olb31..... in line with your sentiments, which I happen to agree with BTW, I am impressed that MLB followed thru and busted arguably its biggest star..... standing on hardcore principal...... Shocking honestly.

ScoobyDoo2

I am more shocked by that than players still juicing...... I thought MLB would run to the ends of the earth to save its "rosy images" like a 23 year old "starlet" in Tatis, Jr..

olb31

baseball is more skill than pure athleticism. just because you juice doesn't mean that you will hit the ball or be a great pitcher.

halosfan

Interesting quotes from the Padres management too.
At the end of the day he did what he did and got his huge contract. No matter if he plays again or not he’s set.

ndleo

Have any of those 10 year mega deals panned out? The Trout deal looks like an anchor on the Angels as well.

olb31

betts?

82FootballWaxMemorys

@ndleo said:
What does the board think will happen to Tatis cards? I don't follow baseball that closely but has a young star like Tatis ever tested positive for PEDs? I think Ryan Braun was 29 when he got busted and he went from a MVP level player to an above average player. Braun's cards seem to be forgettable at this point.

Tatis is 23. Can he redeem himself and his cards?

Buy cards of very young players at Full Market Value over the long term is riskier than true gambling. Over a long haul one likley will do better with Craps or Blackjack if they play those games by the book.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@ndleo said:
Have any of those 10 year mega deals panned out? The Trout deal looks like an anchor on the Angels as well.

Buh Buh Buh he takes so many causal strolls (walks) down to first base. Nothin' more exciting in the game than that.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@olb31 said:
baseball is more skill than pure athleticism. just because you juice doesn't mean that you will hit the ball or be a great pitcher.

While a true statement it's ain't going to help the market on his cards nor allow for HOF entry...unless you have Mitchel covering up for you like Tiny Peepee did

Nathaniel1960

@BaltimoreYankee said:
This is a good reason not to 'invest' in current players. You know Willie Mays isn't going to test positive any time soon.

I tell people (who ask me) all the time. Collect what you like, invest in high grade (or at least centered) deceased HOFs.

brad31

@ndleo said:
Have any of those 10 year mega deals panned out? The Trout deal looks like an anchor on the Angels as well.

The original A-Rod 10 year $252MM deal that Texas signed worked out extremely well.

Here are his stats for the 10 years:

He did opt out somewhere in there - which made it even a better deal.

ndleo

@olb31 said:
betts?

I do like watching Betts when I catch the dodgers. Maybe his body type will help him meet the contract.

ndleo

@Nathaniel1960 said:

@BaltimoreYankee said:
This is a good reason not to 'invest' in current players. You know Willie Mays isn't going to test positive any time soon.

I tell people (who ask me) all the time. Collect what you like, invest in high grade (or at least centered) deceased HOFs.

I’m just going to be factual and neutral. In todays environment even the dead can get cancelled. Hopefully no one writes a tell all on any of the dead guys.

82FootballWaxMemorys

^

Apologies but i disagree with that.

Please name one MLB HOF'er where that has occurred and that their vintage card values were "crushed". Oh and Cobb doesn't count as Card and Memorabilia values hit new all-times highs every year.

If anyone deserved it it might have been Puckett, but all folks seem to recall is his huge smile, HR robbing catches, and 2 WS wins.

Pre-1976 cards of Major HOF's are as close to 100 sound investments as it gets. Nothing has zero risk but it don't get much closer than that.

ArtVandelay

@ndleo said:

Tatis is 23. Can he redeem himself and his cards?

No chance of redemption for his card value. This stain does not wash off and while he definitely can redeem himself as a player to a certain degree people in the hobby will never invest in Tatis especially after many are certain to lose big with their existing Tatis collections.

ndleo

My cancel culture comment was about the general world we live in. Everyone thought BBCE was a “sure thing” and how many people think that now?

KendallCat

@Nathaniel1960 said:

@BaltimoreYankee said:
This is a good reason not to 'invest' in current players. You know Willie Mays isn't going to test positive any time soon.

I tell people (who ask me) all the time. Collect what you like, invest in high grade (or at least centered) deceased HOFs.

^ This right here is outstanding advice for new collectors as well as veterans. First thing is collect what you like - that is why all of us started collecting as kids. Collect a favorite player, team, sport….

Second thing is go for eye appeal first when collecting. I used to be a graded snob and only collect PSA 8’s or higher, and I did not look at centering/eye appeal as much as the grade and corners. As I grew as a collector I started looking at centering first, eye appeal (overall look, color, focus… of cards) versus the grade. I found that finding a nice PSA 4-6 example that looked like an 8 allowed me to buy more cards since I was now paying $500 for a card in a 4 that was $2-3k in an 8. Now I still like 8/8.5 for overall value and long term potential for increased value, but I have most of my favorite cards in my collection are PSA 4-5. Couple of my favorites below.

nam812

That 51 Bowman is ridiculous KC.

Jayman1982

@KendallCat said:

@Nathaniel1960 said:

@BaltimoreYankee said:
This is a good reason not to 'invest' in current players. You know Willie Mays isn't going to test positive any time soon.

I tell people (who ask me) all the time. Collect what you like, invest in high grade (or at least centered) deceased HOFs.

^ This right here is outstanding advice for new collectors as well as veterans. First thing is collect what you like - that is why all of us started collecting as kids. Collect a favorite player, team, sport….

Second thing is go for eye appeal first when collecting. I used to be a graded snob and only collect PSA 8’s or higher, and I did not look at centering/eye appeal as much as the grade and corners. As I grew as a collector I started looking at centering first, eye appeal (overall look, color, focus… of cards) versus the grade. I found that finding a nice PSA 4-6 example that looked like an 8 allowed me to buy more cards since I was now paying $500 for a card in a 4 that was $2-3k in an 8. Now I still like 8/8.5 for overall value and long term potential for increased value, but I have most of my favorite cards in my collection are PSA 4-5. Couple of my favorites below.

These mid grade cards are mind blowingly good looking

olb31

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:

@olb31 said:
baseball is more skill than pure athleticism. just because you juice doesn't mean that you will hit the ball or be a great pitcher.

While a true statement it's ain't going to help the market on his cards nor allow for HOF entry...unless you have Mitchel covering up for you like Tiny Peepee did

bonds, clemens and mcgwire rookies seem to be doing well.

Redglobe

Jayman, you have a great eye....and (assuming) patience.
Agree that '51 mantle is astounding

82FootballWaxMemorys

@olb31 said:

@82FootballWaxMemorys said:

@olb31 said:
baseball is more skill than pure athleticism. just because you juice doesn't mean that you will hit the ball or be a great pitcher.

While a true statement it's ain't going to help the market on his cards nor allow for HOF entry...unless you have Mitchel covering up for you like Tiny Peepee did

bonds, clemens and mcgwire rookies seem to be doing well.

Mostly nostalgia in a certain age bracket. Cards for those 3 would be going for many multiples of their current FMV without the PED taint and if they were in Hall. They also had played for decade and half each before the info came to light, that is not so for Tatis...

I own Zero Post 2000 cards thus no Tatis', for what its worth my opinion has none of the fiscal bias that those who have $$$ invested in him hold. I do feel bad for those folks but but when you roll the dice snake eyes can be the outcome.

olb31

i collect mainly 1997 and back, so i understand

Estil

@ndleo said:
What does the board think will happen to Tatis cards? I don't follow baseball that closely but has a young star like Tatis ever tested positive for PEDs? I think Ryan Braun was 29 when he got busted and he went from a MVP level player to an above average player. Braun's cards seem to be forgettable at this point.

Tatis is 23. Can he redeem himself and his cards?

noticing your icon The dude should've known that...

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/clowing-around-with-drugs-is-no-laughing-matter/ewEnRPpw7z49OA

ndleo

Tatis is blaming a ringworm cream.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@ndleo said:
Tatis is blaming a ringworm cream.

PR folks must have figured how admit to something ultra embarrassing (ringworm) and folks might be more likley to believe you. I'm sure that that misdirect tactic will work on some folks.

Collectors need to move on and write off any Tatis cards as losses. For Flippers and Speculators you won more often than not during the bubble now you need to adapt to the new and old normal; which is win some, lose some.

KendallCat

With Tatis I never got into his cards despite his talent. Too many horror stories about him being reckless in the off-season riding motorcycles… which caused one of his injuries and still doing it, if you are making $300+ million and are not smart enough to quit doing activities that can injure you or end your career not a chance I am putting money into your cards. Modern stuff is taking a hit with his stuff plus Trout(injury), Acuna(out for a while with an injury), Soto’s numbers are down, and Judge is killing it but his cards are not going up. What does that tell you for modern long term🤔

82FootballWaxMemorys

@KendallCat said:
With Tatis I never got into his cards despite his talent. Too many horror stories about him being reckless in the off-season riding motorcycles… which caused one of his injuries and still doing it, if you are making $300+ million and are not smart enough to quit doing activities that can injure you or end your career not a chance I am putting money into your cards. Modern stuff is taking a hit with his stuff plus Trout(injury), Acuna(out for a while with an injury), Soto’s numbers are down, and Judge is killing it but his cards are not going up. What does that tell you for modern long term🤔

"Junk Slab Era" ??

BBBrkrr

@KendallCat said:
With Tatis I never got into his cards despite his talent. Too many horror stories about him being reckless in the off-season riding motorcycles… which caused one of his injuries and still doing it, if you are making $300+ million and are not smart enough to quit doing activities that can injure you or end your career not a chance I am putting money into your cards. Modern stuff is taking a hit with his stuff plus Trout(injury), Acuna(out for a while with an injury), Soto’s numbers are down, and Judge is killing it but his cards are not going up. What does that tell you for modern long term🤔

I don’t do modern but with the way the Yanks are rolling he’s going to get lots of attention in the postseason and I think Jusge’s will start to rise.

1951WheatiesPremium

I agree with the idea of collecting what you like and making sure it’s a nice looking card.

I will also advocate for educating yourself before jumping in and spending. You can have lots of fun collecting this stuff without breaking the bank.

Lastly, once you’ve educated yourself and know your stuff, I think getting a good price on a raw, vintage item and having it slabbed yourself let’s you have greater piece of mind and often a solid value add to the card. Education helps to mitigate risk considerably but everyone makes mistakes.

But the good ones keep you coming back…

…and with a greater appreciation for the service that PSA provides and certainty of what I like to call “slab provenance”.

😉

GDM67

Anyone else get the 4SC Select Showcase e-mail today? Third card down in the 2016 Bowman Chrome Tatis.

Bad timing.

rexvos

1. I am not a Tatis fan or collector
2. What did he take exactly, not all PEDs should be equal in the eyes of the media, hobby or general public. (If it truly is a cortisone type product I 100% do not care) I have had multiple cortisone injections and my stats were never effected.
3. Doesn’t it take more than one positive test to get hit with an 80 game ban ? What were the early positives for.

Like I said I do not collect him, I dislike the Padres in general but absolutely detest the backlash. As for HOF status the guy can’t stay healthy so do not think this is an issue. The media created his hype and now they are tearing him down

brad31

First positive test is 80 games in baseball now.

rexvos

@brad31 said:
First positive test is 80 games in baseball now.

That’s nuts.

1951WheatiesPremium

@rexvos said:
1. I am not a Tatis fan or collector
2. What did he take exactly, not all PEDs should be equal in the eyes of the media, hobby or general public. (If it truly is a cortisone type product I 100% do not care) I have had multiple cortisone injections and my stats were never effected.

Tatis Jr. “tested positive for clostebol, a substance in violation of the league’s policy on performance-enhancing drugs. An 80-game ban without pay was effective immediately. Tatis will miss the rest of a season that, for him, never began. On top of that, he will miss a to-be-determined amount of time next season. Any postseason games the Padres play this fall will count toward his suspension, though his absence, now guaranteed, could affect their chances of qualifying.

In a prepared statement, Tatis said he was “completely devastated.” He said he had inadvertently taken “a medication to treat ringworm” that contained clostebol.”

3. Doesn’t it take more than one positive test to get hit with an 80 game ban ? What were the early positives for.

it was originally less; now it’s 80, then a season then lifetime.

Cakes

For his playing career it could be a blessing in disguise. That much time off should give his shoulder time to heal fully. Otherwise the dislocations could kill his career.