This proof Ike Dollar struck on a copper cent planchet is perfectly centered and dramatic. It’s also in the same auction .
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@CaptHenway said:
The last time I was in the Denver Mint's gift shop (a LOOOOONG time ago; 1983?) they had a small press set up with similar dies but for the Denver Mint, and you could buy a bronze (or high grade brass?) planchet for a dollar or two and walk over to the press and put the planchet in the collar and press a button when the attendant told you to and strike your own souvenir medal. For safety reasons the attendant had a dead man's switch on the floor by his foot and the press could not operate unless he had that depressed.
Do you know of any photos of that press at the Denver Mint? I've followed your posts but would love to see a photo of it!
It would be great if they were able to have a similar set up now.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Byers said:
One group is dated to 1965 since it contains SMS errors from 1965-1967.
Just as an aside, over the years I have seen a number of 1965 SMS coins in the original soft packs that I would be hard pressed to prove were SMS coins once they were removed from the OGP. The 1966 and 1967 pieces were more obvious.
Which reminds me that I once saw a 1967 SMS half that had struck through a curly bit of hair twice with movement of the hair between strikes, so that you had the same random indent pattern impressed into the coin next to and overlapping itself.
Very interesting.
A lot of different processes, some intentional, some not, were used to strike the SMS coins. It is my belief that very very few were struck twice and I never saw one the showed two strikes positively.
There is a vast array of SMS looks. There might well be even things like FS and FB coins that don't look SMS. I believe there are also a few of these coins that are indeed, actual proofs. Even if it doesn't look proof I would call your coin with the hair a "proof".
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
Yes, some SMS strikes look like proofs.
Most of those I've seen that "look" like proofs are probably not. I don't know but I believe very very few of the SMS coins were struck twice. Not all of the planchets were polished enough to consider them proof even when they were struck twice.
I've seen lots of heavy cameo coins but I doubt any were struck twice. Every SMS I've seen that looks proof is brilliant, has a finer texture, and is very sharply struck.
And then there are the washed out ugly 1966 quarters with very little detail that are often almost mark free and always free of planchet marking that might be proof as well. These account for about .5% of production. I didn't even bother to save them for years because they are so ugly but I know for a fact at least a few people have been setting them aside for a very long time.
@DFrohman said:
The bronze assay office medal overstruck with 1971-S Eisenhower dollar dies is nearly at $35,000.00,
and the live auction is still a day away!
It's exciting to see it go up! I wonder how high it will go? I'm hoping it goes over $100k
Congrats on selling the Prototype Ike earlier this year!
@DFrohman said:
The bronze assay office medal overstruck with 1971-S Eisenhower dollar dies is nearly at $35,000.00,
and the live auction is still a day away!
It's exciting to see it go up! I wonder how high it will go? I'm hoping it goes over $100k
Congrats on selling the Prototype Ike earlier this year!
The unique proof Ike Dollar overstruck on the U.S. Mint Medal is an amazing coin!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
David- congrats on the sale of your Ike Dollar prototype.
The Ike Dollar prototype, this Ike Dollar on a struck medal, and the Ike Dollar on a bronze planchet have been exciting discoveries!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Thank you very much, Mike, and I enjoyed helping to unlock the true value of the prototype. I am also following the Heritage auction of the assay office metal overstruck using 1971-S Eisenhower dies, and watching it begin to realize its potential in the marketplace. It will be interesting to see the final sales price tonight.
@gonzer said:
Definitely a product of Mint shenanigans.
Yes, back during this period, there was a fair amount of shenanigans going on. I when to club meeting where someone put up a slide of an Ike Dollar struck on a cent planchet. Not too long after that, I read that that the Secret Service had confiscated an item like that.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@CaptHenway said:
My personal opinion of the deliberately-struck Proof errors continues to be one of disdain, but they are legal and you can collect whatever you like.
TD
People are free to disdain what they want. Some disdain Morgan dollars and 1913 Liberty Nickels!
Of course, there are ones that love those coins too, and those coins are super popular!
There are real differences between an error coin and a purposely made error coin.
What the employees responsible for making errors did, IMHOP, was to make any coin from that era questionable.
That really fouled everything up.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
The error coin market is doing just fine - it is not so fragile as to be harmed by a small faction of critics. It's just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case.
You are correct. The error coin market is very strong. 6 major Ike Dollar mint errors sold last night in HA Platinum Night for strong prices!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@IkesT said:
The error coin market is doing just fine - it is not so fragile as to be harmed by a small faction of critics. It's just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case.
I used to. This sort of stuff turned me off big time and I sold the ones I had acquired. Of course, anybody is free to collect whatever makes them happy. For me, pretend errors (and the acceptance of such) don't meet that standard.
Why would I want a "pretend" 1913 Liberty nickel when the legitimate nickel (1912 and earlier) are
available for a lot less money? Seriously, amazing prices realized last night!
There are many examples of intentional rarities struck in the U.S. Mints for over 2 centuries.
Everyone is obviously free to collect and enjoy whatever coin category that they decide to.
U.S. proof mint errors ( the rarer, more dramatic and larger denominations) continue to sell in the 5 figure range auction after auction after auction. Obviously there is a strong collector base for these.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
A monkey could be trained to put stuff in a coin press and some people would "Ooh! Ahh!" over the result. I already said that people are free to collect whatever makes them happy. Here- let me quote me:
@MasonG said:
Of course, anybody is free to collect whatever makes them happy.
I replied to IkesT's comment:
"I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case."
to point out that some critics did, at one point, collect errors but no longer do so. If deliberately manufactured "errors" float your boat, go for it.
@IkesT said:
The error coin market is doing just fine - it is not so fragile as to be harmed by a small faction of critics. It's just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case.
I was collecting error coins long before I took over the Collectors Clearinghouse department at Coin World in 1976, but as the old saying goes when you make your hobby your livelihood you lose your hobby, so I started collecting other things such as British Commonwealth type coins and the tokens and medals of Thomas L. Elder.
That does not mean that I have not maintained a deep interest in error coins in the ensuing 46 years. How long have you been dabbling in them?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@IkesT said:
The error coin market is doing just fine - it is not so fragile as to be harmed by a small faction of critics. It's just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case.
I was collecting error coins long before I took over the Collectors Clearinghouse department at Coin World in 1976, but as the old saying goes when you make your hobby your livelihood you lose your hobby, so I started collecting other things such as British Commonwealth type coins and the tokens and medals of Thomas L. Elder.
That does not mean that I have not maintained a deep interest in error coins in the ensuing 46 years. How long have you been dabbling in them?
I didn't realize that error coins were part of your job, but it's good to know. I do like your observations on accidental vs. intentional errors, like on the gold Indian Head Cents.
Elder pieces are fun but I can see how it would be hard to make a living in them. There are so few around! I collect them but there are long periods of waiting between acquisitions!
Many expensive ‘mint errors’ are still a mystery whether they are accidental or intentional errors, like the gold Indian Head Cents and the gold Buffalo Nickel.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
I DIG ALL Coinage Errors from here, there & everywhere.
Shenanigans:
My favorite adopted term,
or Assisted,
or Mint Sport,
or just random natural production errors riddled out and put aside & later liberated, eventually,
or scraped metal sold by weight, it's all good with me.
I Love Error Coinage.
All examples help me understand the limits & possibilities of various mint machinery output. Many cannot pay admission price for stellar examples like the 71S IKE struck on related mint visit token.
Seriously, this item took thought, and a historical perspective if it was conceived & executed. One and done, or one of two or more ?
Its Error Coinage Art to me.
In my world just having images of what's been possible is free access library with zero out of pocket cost research fun.
Congrats to happy buyer !!!
I could say so much more about your possibly unique treasure, but you obviously get it, & you got it, and it's yours.
Many expensive ‘mint errors’ are still a mystery whether they are accidental or intentional errors, like the gold Indian Head Cents and the gold Buffalo Nickel.
Many expensive ‘mint errors’ are still a mystery whether they are accidental or intentional errors, like the gold Indian Head Cents and the gold Buffalo Nickel.
On this we agree. I for one have never had any problems with the gold off metals, but other people do, and I respect their opinions.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Many expensive ‘mint errors’ are still a mystery whether they are accidental or intentional errors, like the gold Indian Head Cents and the gold Buffalo Nickel.
On this we agree. I for one have never had any problems with the gold off metals, but other people do, and I respect their opinions.
Your reasoning on the gold off metals is seems sounds and logical.
Regarding the (2) Pan Pac Halves struck on cut-down $20 St. Gaudens gold coins…
No debate whether accidental or intentional- they are intentional.
But it’s debateable that they are patterns
( they have Judd numbers and are certified by PCGS and NGC).
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
Regarding the (2) Pan Pac Halves struck on cut-down $20 St. Gaudens gold coins…
No debate whether accidental or intentional- they are intentional.
But it’s debateable that they are patterns
( they have Judd numbers and are certified by PCGS and NGC).
Certainly not errors.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Both Pan Pac Halves struck on cut down $20 St. Gaudens gold coins were intentionally produced and obviously not mint errors.
But why do they have Judd #’s?
Likely fantasy pieces, not patterns…
Should fantasy coins in Judd, that are obviously not patterns, be designated by Judd #’s???
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Comments
This proof Ike Dollar struck on a copper cent planchet is perfectly centered and dramatic. It’s also in the same auction .
Definitely a "No S" proof
Do you know of any photos of that press at the Denver Mint? I've followed your posts but would love to see a photo of it!
It would be great if they were able to have a similar set up now.
Don't know of any pictures, sorry.
Very interesting.
A lot of different processes, some intentional, some not, were used to strike the SMS coins. It is my belief that very very few were struck twice and I never saw one the showed two strikes positively.
There is a vast array of SMS looks. There might well be even things like FS and FB coins that don't look SMS. I believe there are also a few of these coins that are indeed, actual proofs. Even if it doesn't look proof I would call your coin with the hair a "proof".
A few SMS look proof.
Yes, some SMS strikes look like proofs.
Most of those I've seen that "look" like proofs are probably not. I don't know but I believe very very few of the SMS coins were struck twice. Not all of the planchets were polished enough to consider them proof even when they were struck twice.
I've seen lots of heavy cameo coins but I doubt any were struck twice. Every SMS I've seen that looks proof is brilliant, has a finer texture, and is very sharply struck.
And then there are the washed out ugly 1966 quarters with very little detail that are often almost mark free and always free of planchet marking that might be proof as well. These account for about .5% of production. I didn't even bother to save them for years because they are so ugly but I know for a fact at least a few people have been setting them aside for a very long time.
The bronze assay office medal overstruck with 1971-S Eisenhower dollar dies is nearly at $35,000.00,
and the live auction is still a day away!
It's exciting to see it go up! I wonder how high it will go? I'm hoping it goes over $100k
Congrats on selling the Prototype Ike earlier this year!
Are you the owner for this one as well?
Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.
>
The unique proof Ike Dollar overstruck on the U.S. Mint Medal is an amazing coin!
All sorts of amazing things could be struck if one had access to the mint, I'm sure.
Meh.
Your mileage may vary.
David- congrats on the sale of your Ike Dollar prototype.
The Ike Dollar prototype, this Ike Dollar on a struck medal, and the Ike Dollar on a bronze planchet have been exciting discoveries!
Thank you very much, Mike, and I enjoyed helping to unlock the true value of the prototype. I am also following the Heritage auction of the assay office metal overstruck using 1971-S Eisenhower dies, and watching it begin to realize its potential in the marketplace. It will be interesting to see the final sales price tonight.
.
Yes, back during this period, there was a fair amount of shenanigans going on. I when to club meeting where someone put up a slide of an Ike Dollar struck on a cent planchet. Not too long after that, I read that that the Secret Service had confiscated an item like that.
Sold for $40,800.00 (and $3,000.00 more than the 1922 High Relief Peace Dollar)
Wow, someone got a steal! Wish it was me!
I'm very curious what it would look like with a TrueView and think that may have helped it.
There are real differences between an error coin and a purposely made error coin.
What the employees responsible for making errors did, IMHOP, was to make any coin from that era questionable.
That really fouled everything up.
Pete
The error coin market is doing just fine - it is not so fragile as to be harmed by a small faction of critics. It's just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case.
@IkesT
You are correct. The error coin market is very strong. 6 major Ike Dollar mint errors sold last night in HA Platinum Night for strong prices!
I used to. This sort of stuff turned me off big time and I sold the ones I had acquired. Of course, anybody is free to collect whatever makes them happy. For me, pretend errors (and the acceptance of such) don't meet that standard.
Why would I want a "pretend" 1913 Liberty nickel when the legitimate nickel (1912 and earlier) are
available for a lot less money? Seriously, amazing prices realized last night!
@DFrohman
You definitely have a point David!
There are many examples of intentional rarities struck in the U.S. Mints for over 2 centuries.
Everyone is obviously free to collect and enjoy whatever coin category that they decide to.
U.S. proof mint errors ( the rarer, more dramatic and larger denominations) continue to sell in the 5 figure range auction after auction after auction. Obviously there is a strong collector base for these.
.
A monkey could be trained to put stuff in a coin press and some people would "Ooh! Ahh!" over the result. I already said that people are free to collect whatever makes them happy. Here- let me quote me:
I replied to IkesT's comment:
"I suspect the majority of the critics do not collect errors, in any case."
to point out that some critics did, at one point, collect errors but no longer do so. If deliberately manufactured "errors" float your boat, go for it.
You might like this article
Blindfolded Monkey Beats Humans With Stock Picks
I am curious about the error coins that could be made!
I was collecting error coins long before I took over the Collectors Clearinghouse department at Coin World in 1976, but as the old saying goes when you make your hobby your livelihood you lose your hobby, so I started collecting other things such as British Commonwealth type coins and the tokens and medals of Thomas L. Elder.
That does not mean that I have not maintained a deep interest in error coins in the ensuing 46 years. How long have you been dabbling in them?
I didn't realize that error coins were part of your job, but it's good to know. I do like your observations on accidental vs. intentional errors, like on the gold Indian Head Cents.
Elder pieces are fun but I can see how it would be hard to make a living in them. There are so few around! I collect them but there are long periods of waiting between acquisitions!
@Zoins
Many expensive ‘mint errors’ are still a mystery whether they are accidental or intentional errors, like the gold Indian Head Cents and the gold Buffalo Nickel.
I DIG ALL Coinage Errors from here, there & everywhere.
Shenanigans:
My favorite adopted term,
or Assisted,
or Mint Sport,
or just random natural production errors riddled out and put aside & later liberated, eventually,
or scraped metal sold by weight, it's all good with me.
I Love Error Coinage.
All examples help me understand the limits & possibilities of various mint machinery output. Many cannot pay admission price for stellar examples like the 71S IKE struck on related mint visit token.
Seriously, this item took thought, and a historical perspective if it was conceived & executed. One and done, or one of two or more ?
Its Error Coinage Art to me.
In my world just having images of what's been possible is free access library with zero out of pocket cost research fun.
Congrats to happy buyer !!!
I could say so much more about your possibly unique treasure, but you obviously get it, & you got it, and it's yours.
Lindy
Definite 🐒📊going on
On this we agree. I for one have never had any problems with the gold off metals, but other people do, and I respect their opinions.
Your reasoning on the gold off metals is seems sounds and logical.
Regarding the (2) Pan Pac Halves struck on cut-down $20 St. Gaudens gold coins…
No debate whether accidental or intentional- they are intentional.
But it’s debateable that they are patterns
( they have Judd numbers and are certified by PCGS and NGC).
Certainly not errors.
Both Pan Pac Halves struck on cut down $20 St. Gaudens gold coins were intentionally produced and obviously not mint errors.
But why do they have Judd #’s?
Likely fantasy pieces, not patterns…
Should fantasy coins in Judd, that are obviously not patterns, be designated by Judd #’s???