How to interpret "Collection" in a Provenace / Pedigree list?

Zoins

In a provenance list on Heritage, one will often see some names associated with the word "Collection" and others without.

I've come to learn that when something says "Sale of [famous collector]'s Collection] this means that it was in the same auction as that person's coins, but is not owned by that person.

What if it just says "[famous person] Collection"? Does that also mean the coin wasn't owned by the famous person, but was in a sale with that person's collection?

For example, in the following list, we see:

• Virgil Brand
• Armin Brand
• Jack Lee Collection III

Does this mean this coin was owned by Virgil Brand and Armin Brand, but it was not owned by Jack Lee?

Of note, the Norwebs are mentioned both ways:

• Ambassador and Mrs. R. Henry Norweb
• Norweb Collection

https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1802-1-pr64-pcgs-b-8-bb-302-high-r7-restrike-or-novodel-pcgs-6905-/a/1219-5134.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

Heritage wrote:
3. PR64 PCGS. Captain John W. Haseltine; Thomas Cleneay Sale (S. Hudson Chapman and Henry Chapman, 12/1890), lot 949; Peter Mougey Sale (Thomas Elder, 9/1910), lot 962; John P. Lyman Sale (S. Hudson Chapman, 11/1913), lot 14; H.O. Granberg Sale (B. Max Mehl, 7/1919), lot 30; Virgil Brand (journal number 92339); Armin Brand; B. Max Mehl private treaty sale to Ambassador and Mrs. R. Henry Norweb (1/1937); Norweb Collection (Bowers and Merena, 11/1988), lot 3770; Don Hosier (Superior, 2/1991), lot 1960; Jack Lee Collection III (Heritage, 11/2005), lot 2199; Dallas ANA Signature (Heritage, 10/2012), lot 4594, realized $411,250, a record price for a non-Cameo example; the present coin.

lilolme

Going to that HA 2005 auction.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-early-dollars/1802-1-pr64-pcgs-b-8-bb-302-r7-restrike-or-novodel-the-cleneay-norweb-specimen-this-coin-is-an-attractive-light-s/a/388-2199.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

It states at the bottom of the description.
From The Jack Lee Collection, III(#6905)

So it sounds like it was in the JL collection.

Zoins

@lilolme said:
Going to that HA 2005 auction.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-early-dollars/1802-1-pr64-pcgs-b-8-bb-302-r7-restrike-or-novodel-the-cleneay-norweb-specimen-this-coin-is-an-attractive-light-s/a/388-2199.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

It states at the bottom of the description.
From The Jack Lee Collection, III(#6905)

So it sounds like it was in the JL collection.

So perhaps Collection is used when there's a sale, whether the coin is in the sale or not? If so, would one have to check the auction records of every sale where "Collection" is mentioned?

neildrobertson

I would expect that any coin with a "collection" attribution was owned by that collector. Do some people assign provenance by association?