Question about one cent Indians (pre 1900s)

spyglassdesign

Would the marks around the middle of the letters on the reverse and around the top lettering on the obverse be considered die cracks? Would they affect grading possibly? Otherwise the mark on the cheek is obviously an impact mark, yes?

I'm still learning about Morgan's and here I am headed down another rabbit trail to learn about another coin lol...

jesbroken

Appear to be die cracks and longacre doubling. Die cracks bother some and many others like them as a historical reference as to the day to day wear and tear on the dies. Longacre doubling is fairly prevalent on many copper coins, so no benefit and should not affect grading.
Jim

spyglassdesign

@jesbroken said:
Appear to be die cracks and longacre doubling. Die cracks bother some and many others like them as a historical reference as to the day to day wear and tear on the dies. Longacre doubling is fairly prevalent on many copper coins, so no benefit and should not affect grading.
Jim

Never heard of Longacre doubling. Looked it up and learned something new! Thanks!

TomB

My first impression of the squiggly line around the two Ns in "ONE CENT" is that it is either an example of a struck-through fiber or the stain from a previous chemical cleaning since the coin appears to have manipulated surfaces. However, that is going by the images provided and the glare on them is not kind to interpretation. The diagonal mark on the cheek might be due to a die scratch and, therefore, not something that is post-mint, but it might also be more likely an actual scratch on the coin. It doesn't look like a classic mark from banging coins together, but appears that something may have cut into the surface.

spyglassdesign

How important are the "4 diamonds"? Are they absolutely necessary to get a high grade? Say a 65+ or 64+?

spyglassdesign

@TomB what exactly clues you in to possibly modified surfaces? Thanks!

TomB

@spyglassdesign said:
@TomB what exactly clues you in to possibly modified surfaces? Thanks!

This might not be the most helpful answer, but the color just looks off and the surfaces look like they are cloudy. A great many of these pieces were treated over the years to make them appear red and over time they dull down to what I am interpreting this coin to look like in-hand.

spyglassdesign

@TomB thanks, that is helpful.

spyglassdesign

@TomB if it were determined to be modified surface, that could prevent a straight grade, correct?

291fifth

The coin looks like it has been cleaned.

spyglassdesign

@291fifth said:
The coin looks like it has been cleaned.

Yeah the more I look at it the more I see it. Too splotchy to be natural.

jedm

My first impression was that something had been removed from the surface of the coin in the N in ONE area. When looking at the second pic (of the obverse) maybe the same thing had taken place, but when I see similar irregularities in the ES of STATES I begin to think maybe die cracks. In other words I don't know, but your pics are great and thanks for posting and interesting coin.

spyglassdesign

@jedm I wish I could claim it as mine... It was an interesting find on ebay that if would grade decently would be a nice pickup. I think due to my lack of knowledge on this particular coin I will stand by for now. Thanks for the feedback!

jedm

Ah, yes, I would pass on that one. There were 28 million of them minted if I remember correctly, so another one will turn up I'm sure.
Edited to correct the mintage: 23 Million

ricko

Great pictures. Yes the surface looks treated, I would pass on that one. The cheek mark looks raised (to me) so would be a die gouge...The mark on the neck looks post mint. Cheers, RickO