P VS D
Onastone
Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
Seems to me like D minted coins are almost always better than P minted coins. Why is that? Does the Denver mint have a better facility than Philadelphia or a better system?? Newer equipment and higher quality control?? Or is it just my imagination and they're all producing equally about the same?
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For the 2021 Morgans, D has the lowest % of submissions grading out at 70. I haven’t looked at data for any other coins to know if that is an outlier or not though.
No idea why that is but it is. Not your imagination, however plucked an ms68 Lincoln cent out of a '21 P mint set. Thought it had a good shot at '69. Was shocked to find any P quality coins in the sets.
I live outside of Philly, and it seems we've had that distinction of being the inferior-quality Mint for a while now........
The D minted quarters were far superior to the P minted quarters back in 2019 and 2020...I assumed they are a newer production facility.....
Used to be the opposite - so then the branch mints have stepped up to justify their existence. Two previous mints were closed (O and CC) and so D and S started differentiating by being the location of special strikes, and for S there are the silver proofs, etc. Also West Point is in a similar situation. I personally consider P mint to be the “mother ship” of the US mint.
I think Ds tend to be struck harder based on higher rims and smoother surfaces. But that is just anecdotal on my part from what I have observed.
You're absolutely right. It's not your imagination. There is a distinctive quality control issue and difference between Denver production and Philly production. Philly has had problems for years, across the board. Don't know if it's personnel or equipment. I've seen business struck D quarters with almost proof like finishes compared to Philly.
One way to find out...... Transfer every Denver Mint employee to Philly and every Philly Mint employee to Denver!! 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Well yah. Then there’s these and a large number from the explore and discover set The 2019 D mint set produced a few PLs 🦫🦫🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Remember, the business strike coins are for commerce, not collectors. I think Philadelphia does a perfectly adequate job meeting that purpose.
"Perfectly adequate" Is that a standard to shoot for?
True. They certainly do produce huge quantities....but so does Denver, and they still look nicer.
Where should they draw the line on what is acceptable? MS69? MS70?
The coins are for circulation and fall below MS quickly.
I have read this commentary before, actually several times over the years. I have not studied the issue, but believe there must be substance to the observation since so many established collectors have noted it. Would be good for some mint employees (D and P) to chime in and offer their inputs. Cheers, RickO
No doubt in my mind Mint management (customer service/public relations etc...) monitor these coin forums. It would be nice if they chimed in but I seriously doubt it. I would start with Ms. Gibson and work my way down. 😂 😉
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Actually, yes. If you have a product that is going to be taking a beating, there is no reason to go to great lengths to add a bit more refinement that will soon be lost in use and doesn't otherwise provide value to the product. If making the coins a bit nicer (however that's defined) would slow down or limit production, or increase the cost to produce each coin, then for coins used in commerce, that's not value added once the coins are perfectly adequate.
Which mint produces more coins? If P produces more than D on the same machinery than this might explain it because their machinery might be more run down and less Preventative Maintenance might be done
Mr_Spud
I’ve lived a few blocks away from both of these mints. It’s definitely attributable to the high altitude of Denver.
I hope you got to tour them, I'd love to visit these mints...
their machinery might be more run down
Exactly what I was thinking...
Would be good for some mint employees (D and P) to chime in and offer their inputs.
I'd love to hear their viewpoints on this.
If you have a product that is going to be taking a beating, there is no reason to go to great lengths to add a bit more refinement that will soon be lost in use and doesn't otherwise provide value to the product. If making the coins a bit nicer (however that's defined) would slow down or limit production, or increase the cost to produce each coin, then for coins used in commerce, that's not value added once the coins are perfectly adequate.
It's not a question of slowing down, limiting productions, increasing costs, or delivering good enough for circulation coinage...it was a question of is one mint delivering a higher quality. I respect both mints, it's a daunting job what they are producing.
I'd like to point out that the "S" unc ATB quarters exhibit the same or at least highly similar prooflike surfaces as the Denver mint issues. Perhaps it's Denver's way of asking to make a proof coin every now and then.
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But the specific comment I was referring to was ""Perfectly adequate" Is that a standard to shoot for?" and my reply covers all of that.
What are the differences? Is it strike, marks, etc.?
Some differences I've noticed would include noticable luster, less bag marks, better details, yes and higher rims ....they just seem a bit nicer and stand out and I see I'm not alone in thinking that. I was wondering if it was a geographical thing but doubt that...they must have newer equipment, someone mentioned it's a newer facility.
Look at this old postcard of Philly! Love the wooden chairs!!!