A forum member has worked hard to obtain a bunch of WW-II pattern/experimental cent pieces. Oreville helped RWB with a book on the topic if I recall. I am sure someone will correct me if my memory is foggy.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
For ultra-rarities that attract collectors with virtually limitless dollars I might be able to see hoarding working, financially. But for coins that are plentiful enough to obey normal supply-demand economics, I don't see it making financial sense. They will ride the supply-demand curve up in price as they are buying, then ride the exact same curve down when selling.
I can understand someone who just wants every example of something, maybe for research purposes, or as a compulsion.
@seatedlib3991 said:
Yes. I know of one person. I don't know their name, but I call them Super Moron Idiot.
I was trying to complete my set of New Orleans Seated Half dollars abut 15 years ago.
The last coin I needed was an 1852-O. I was hoping for a straight graded coin in anything from AG-3 to F-12. That was my price range.
Lucky for me about 7 coins came up for auction in a 2 year period. Unlucky for me, no matter what I bid, I always lost. I won't lie. On more than one occasion I got caught up in the heat of the auction and way overbid. Still I lost.
Then one day I was searching E-Bay for 52-O halves and found a site with over 10 coins.
The cheapest coin was an AG-3 for 1,500 dollars. The coins went up to Fine-15 and the prices went as high as 6,000 dollars. Many coins looked familiar. I did some research and was able to identify 7 coins I had bid on and lost. In every case he had tripled the price of the winning bid.
I checked on his site for about 2 and a half years. I never saw a single coin sell. Then I lost interest. It is my sincere wish that Super Morn Idiot now lives in a van down by the river.
Buying the coins at triple the price and then trying to sell them for even more seems like an interesting business strategy.
@savitale said:
For ultra-rarities that attract collectors with virtually limitless dollars I might be able to see hoarding working, financially. But for coins that are plentiful enough to obey normal supply-demand economics, I don't see it making financial sense. They will ride the supply-demand curve up in price as they are buying, then ride the exact same curve down when selling.
I can understand someone who just wants every example of something, maybe for research purposes, or as a compulsion.
Sometimes you just need the price of copper to go up
@BuffaloIronTail said:
Specifics elude me. It's been awhile since I perused David Lange's Lincoln Cent book.
He stated that someone tried to purchase the entire mintage of 1931-S Lincoln Cents (all 866,000 pieces).
If someone has the book, they can look it up. Mine is hiding from me at the moment.
Pete
"Walter Breen reported a hoard of 200,000 Mint State cents of this date (1931-S) once held by Maurice Scharlack (introduced earlier as a hoarder of 1922-D cents)". "That's nearly one-quarter of the entire mintage"!
Sol Taylor recounts a tale by famed dealer Abe Kosoff in which Kosoff acquired two Mint State rolls from a dealer who allegedly owned hundreds more rolls. If true this may have been the same hoard described by Breen.
Source: The Complete Guide to LINCOLN CENTS by David W. Lange
@D808LF said:
The Sacagawea dollar / Washington quarter mule comes to mind. Tommy Bolack tried to capture that market, with good success, he owns 16/19 coins IIRC.
This was discussed yesterday.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
The problem with "cornering the market" for any coin is that it assumes coin collectors are all speculators, and not coin collectors. In other words, it assumes that if someone posted a "want to buy" order for a specific coin that was two or three times the market rate, then everybody would do the economically logical thing and promptly sell their coins at that rate, thus allowing the creation of the monopoly.
Coin collectors are not logical. I'm a coin collector, and I'm not logical. The coins in my collection are not for sale, to anybody, for any price. Choose the most cheap, common and replaceable coin in my collection, and offer me a billion dollars for it. I will refuse. I'll happily swap out a coin in the collection for a better one, if you're up for the trade, but outright sell? Nope.
One day, those coins in my collection will indeed come up for sale. But not today. So if you're wanting to buy one of those coins out of my collection, today, you're out of luck. And I highly doubt I would be alone in this attitude. So to get "all the coins", you'd need to wait until every single coin collector alive today is dead and their coins have gone to market.
Meanwhile, while coin collectors are not logical, the supply-and-demand market that drives coin prices is logical. So if someone tried to "corner a market" in a coin, the price for that coin would increase as supply dried up. The would-be cornerer would find themselves needing to pay higher and higher prices for each example secured.
TL;DR: a market cornerer would not live long enough, nor have deep enough pockets, to carry out such a scheme.
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
@savitale said:
For ultra-rarities that attract collectors with virtually limitless dollars I might be able to see hoarding working, financially. But for coins that are plentiful enough to obey normal supply-demand economics, I don't see it making financial sense. They will ride the supply-demand curve up in price as they are buying, then ride the exact same curve down when selling.
I can understand someone who just wants every example of something, maybe for research purposes, or as a compulsion.
Sometimes you just need the price of copper to go up
There was a hoarder up in Vermont who was found dead with the collections filling the house; the floors literally sagged with the weight of all the coins he had. Littleton cleaned out that hoard.
Cents haven't been made of copper for 40 years. I wonder how much of that hoard is copper and how much is zinc?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The coins in my collection are not for sale, to anybody, for any price. Choose the most cheap, common and replaceable coin in my collection, and offer me a billion dollars for it. I will refuse. I'll happily swap out a coin in the collection for a better one, if you're up for the trade, but outright sell? Nope.
I suppose there are people so bullheadedly principled in the world, but for every 1000 people who professes this, there are maybe one or two that would actually do it, given the opportunity. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if someone actually showed up with a billion dollars (in cash, if you'd like), you'd trade all of your worldly possessions for it in a heartbeat.
I have no intention of selling either, but there is a price point, and it's a miniscule fraction of a billion.
@BuffaloIronTail said:
Specifics elude me. It's been awhile since I perused David Lange's Lincoln Cent book.
He stated that someone tried to purchase the entire mintage of 1931-S Lincoln Cents (all 866,000 pieces).
If someone has the book, they can look it up. Mine is hiding from me at the moment.
Pete
"Walter Breen reported a hoard of 200,000 Mint State cents of this date (1931-S) once held by Maurice Scharlack (introduced earlier as a hoarder of 1922-D cents)". "That's nearly one-quarter of the entire mintage"!
Sol Taylor recounts a tale by famed dealer Abe Kosoff in which Kosoff acquired two Mint State rolls from a dealer who allegedly owned hundreds more rolls. If true this may have been the same hoard described by Breen.
Source: The Complete Guide to LINCOLN CENTS by David W. Lange
Thanks Joe. That is what I was referring to.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
For some foreign issues it would be pretty simple. Canada often pushes out coins with low mintage (hundreds, not thousands) that take weeks to sell out due to lack of demand. with no demand, you could probably scoop them all up.
All can think of is the hunts on silver decades ago.
Otherwise Unless your a billionaire I don’t think that’s realistic.
However I simply try to have graded coins / PM at my table the other dealers in room not likely to have. Like quality low pop Mexico or world slabbed material like one piece Mex second republic silver piece Pcgs 65 pop 2/ 0. Or some key coin possibly only one room. Ditto on my graded WPM many top pop. Just sent in a WPM submission.
That way those other dealers in bourse room can’t under cut me or work some racket on me they have especially with some big gun rich dealer / racket they in collusion with where they can get it for less than me.
For a change of scenery / something different / innovative have gone to slabbed mods & bullion , WPM, raw US /world collector coins $60 and under. Sold about a dozen slabbed Mexico silver Libertads at last show. What happens is I pickup regular customers in these areas which adds synergy to the process. Or sometimes young parents which bought some bullion slabbed Star Wars issues for their kids.
OTOH, I’d reported previously on the forum about a dealer friend who loves the low mintage ‘13S Barber dimes. I assumed he’d stopped or leveled off a while ago as I hadn’t heard about them. Nope, in a recent conversation he said he had around 4000 now….
That explains why the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. There are 25 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. I won't be buying a 1913-S in the near future.
@DisneyFan said:
Anybody know the story behind the MS65 & MS66 1912-S Liberty (Barber ) nickels? A true original roll?
I heard when NGC accused PCGS of Grade inflation they used the 12-S nickel against them. What NGC didn't know was 2 cherry rolls of 12-S's were submitted.
OTOH, I’d reported previously on the forum about a dealer friend who loves the low mintage ‘13S Barber dimes. I assumed he’d stopped or leveled off a while ago as I hadn’t heard about them. Nope, in a recent conversation he said he had around 4000 now….
That explains why the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. There are 25 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. I won't be buying a 1913-S in the near future.
Just to clarify, I don't think any of his are MS - or even AU. But I could be wrong; he may have expanded into higher grades.
OTOH, I’d reported previously on the forum about a dealer friend who loves the low mintage ‘13S Barber dimes. I assumed he’d stopped or leveled off a while ago as I hadn’t heard about them. Nope, in a recent conversation he said he had around 4000 now….
That explains why the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. There are 25 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. I won't be buying a 1913-S in the near future.
Just to clarify, I don't think any of his are MS - or even AU. But I could be wrong; he may have expanded into higher grades.
Agree with what you are saying. Think about this. Bowers in his Guidebook of Barber Silver Coins (2nd edition) states availability of the 1913-S in circulated grades is "3,000 to 4,000. Most are G-4." You said "...a dealer friend has around 4,000 now...." Typically, Bowers refers to 100,000+ being available in the lower grades.
The lack of finding one in the lower grades could increase demand for the higher grades and make collectors willing to pay up.
Anybody remember the copper cent hoard in several Rubbermaid trash cans in his garage. He was saving them for his son and buying them by the bag. A Ferrari was parked in the garage too.
@Modwriter said:
Anybody remember the copper cent hoard in several Rubbermaid trash cans in his garage. He was saving them for his son and buying them by the bag. A Ferrari was parked in the garage too.
@Modwriter said:
Anybody remember the copper cent hoard in several Rubbermaid trash cans in his garage. He was saving them for his son and buying them by the bag. A Ferrari was parked in the garage too.
Since there are estimated 15,000 1955 doubled die cents in existence, if each was worth on average $2000 (highly speculative) it would theoretically take 30M$ to buy all of them. However, how many are for sale at any given time? In other words, if you bought every example that came up for sale, how long would it take to gain even a majority of examples extant?
@rays said:
Since there estimated 15,000 1955 doubled die cents in existence, if each was worth on average $2000 (highly speculative) it would theoretically take 30M$ to buy all of them. However, how many are for sale at any given time? In other words, if you bought every example that came up for sale, how long would it take to gain even a majority of examples extant?
The mint not only refused to sell but took umbrage and it became policy to never again make short mint runs.
@savitale said:
For ultra-rarities that attract collectors with virtually limitless dollars I might be able to see hoarding working, financially. But for coins that are plentiful enough to obey normal supply-demand economics, I don't see it making financial sense. They will ride the supply-demand curve up in price as they are buying, then ride the exact same curve down when selling.
I can understand someone who just wants every example of something, maybe for research purposes, or as a compulsion.
Sometimes you just need the price of copper to go up
The 1794 half dollars were hoarded by one person for a number of years, he eventually had over 200 examples which greatly increased prices. They were sold over several auctions at Heritage 2017-19 where prices dropped around 50% - I bought seven different 1794 die marriages at the lower prices: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/984567/lots-of-1794-half-dollars-on-the-market
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
@Sapyx said:
The coins in my collection are not for sale, to anybody, for any price. Choose the most cheap, common and replaceable coin in my collection, and offer me a billion dollars for it. I will refuse. I'll happily swap out a coin in the collection for a better one, if you're up for the trade, but outright sell? Nope.
Send all those billionaires my way
I'll sell my coins for a billion dollars all day long!
@PerryHall said:
Cents haven't been made of copper for 40 years. I wonder how much of that hoard is copper and how much is zinc?
That hoard is from @compromonedas who indicates it's all wheat cents. How many wheat cents are zinc?
None are zinc but some are zinc plated steel.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Cents haven't been made of copper for 40 years. I wonder how much of that hoard is copper and how much is zinc?
That hoard is from @compromonedas who indicates it's all wheat cents. How many wheat cents are zinc?
None are zinc but some are zinc plated steel.
Agree. We can ask Keith @compromonedas if he filters them out or not
A large industrial magnet would work.
I can see a large retail coin company like Littleton selling these by the pound with a discount for larger quantities.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes. I know of one person. I don't know their name, but I call them Super Moron Idiot.
I was trying to complete my set of New Orleans Seated Half dollars abut 15 years ago.
The last coin I needed was an 1852-O. I was hoping for a straight graded coin in anything from AG-3 to F-12. That was my price range.
Lucky for me about 7 coins came up for auction in a 2 year period. Unlucky for me, no matter what I bid, I always lost. I won't lie. On more than one occasion I got caught up in the heat of the auction and way overbid. Still I lost.
Then one day I was searching E-Bay for 52-O halves and found a site with over 10 coins.
The cheapest coin was an AG-3 for 1,500 dollars. The coins went up to Fine-15 and the prices went as high as 6,000 dollars. Many coins looked familiar. I did some research and was able to identify 7 coins I had bid on and lost. In every case he had tripled the price of the winning bid.
I checked on his site for about 2 and a half years. I never saw a single coin sell. Then I lost interest. It is my sincere wish that the Super Moron Idiot now lives in a van down by the river.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
There was a guy (Dr. Roy Sturgeon) who compiled a "roll" of fifty 1793 Liberty Cap large cents some years ago. In fact, he ended up with 56 examples. They were sold off in 2002. Here is an external link to the story on largecents.net:
OTOH, I’d reported previously on the forum about a dealer friend who loves the low mintage ‘13S Barber dimes. I assumed he’d stopped or leveled off a while ago as I hadn’t heard about them. Nope, in a recent conversation he said he had around 4000 now….
That explains why the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. There are 25 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. I won't be buying a 1913-S in the near future.
I got my slick 1913-S Barber Dime in the raw for $3.50
OTOH, I’d reported previously on the forum about a dealer friend who loves the low mintage ‘13S Barber dimes. I assumed he’d stopped or leveled off a while ago as I hadn’t heard about them. Nope, in a recent conversation he said he had around 4000 now….
That explains why the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. There are 25 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. I won't be buying a 1913-S in the near future.
I got my slick 1913-S Barber Dime in the raw for $3.50
No kidding.
That's a deal! What grade is it? I'm just not comfortable paying $2,350 or more for one in MS64 or better.
Was doing some random vamworld thread search... a comment in passing makes me think that some or most of the early VAM hunters are hoarding the 1878 8TF rarities.
Makes me think the true pop is 2X or 3X.
How many would actually grade?
At one point I cherrypicked three MS63 examples of a certain VAM, about 25% of the MS pop.
Also had found and sold three AU Details examples which covered my cost for the MS coins.
First sold for $2200 and a month later the other went for $1300. The third coin had some toning issues and went for $800.
All profits, but yes, supply and demand played a role.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Someone who tries to corner a market can get really unlucky, as when a hoard comes out, especially the $20 gold hoards have come out with relatively rare issues becoming a lot less so and less expensive.
In Seville, I cleaned two weekly bottom-feeder flea markets of Roman bits. New sellers would tell me about the guiri who bought everything when I harshed the prices. I have Roman and Spanish coins stashed with that stuff. I will post the coins in a thread with a bidet. My fave, whether it built the Ark, the Cross, or the Santa Maria:
That's a deal! What grade is it? I'm just not comfortable paying $2,350 or more for one in MS64 or better.
Oh! Yeah, the slick 1913 s for three dollars and fifty cents is definitely a bargain.
I wanted album fillers for my Dansco and the Barber Dimes collection needs another 24 more, not including the 1894 s (is currently stuck at 50 coins).
After starting the slab purchases, just don't find myself spendimg those kimd of monies, so it probably staus in hiatus for a while.
@yspsales said:
Was doing some random vamworld thread search... a comment in passing makes me think that some or most of the early VAM hunters are hoarding the 1878 8TF rarities.
Makes me think the true pop is 2X or 3X.
How many would actually grade?
At one point I cherrypicked three MS63 examples of a certain VAM, about 25% of the MS pop.
Also had found and sold three AU Details examples which covered my cost for the MS coins.
First sold for $2200 and a month later the other went for $1300. The third coin had some toning issues and went for $800.
All profits, but yes, supply and demand played a role.
True.
Initially had gone the uber cheap route for my collections just wanting to fill Danscos and now in the process of slowly upgrading them all to slabbed versions of higher grades.
Managed to land a pair of 1878 8TF & 7TF in the raw for $155 (taxes and shipping included) on fleabay, but unfortunately it was cleaned. Got it graded by ANACS for $10 each and the 8TF came back with EF 40 details, so definitely no loss there.
Shall wait and watch coz am not at all in a hurry to upgrade those for the current prices they attract.
Seems to me I recall a couple of guys trying to control the '09 UHR Gold Eagle market constantly putting out high bids...and a lot of dealers worried that once they exited the market the numbers would tank.
I do not understand how a person would get out of their position without taking a bath or causing issues to rise in price considerably during acquisition.
Comments
I have heard about a guy who has over 600 1893-S Silver Dollars.
Unless I missed it has anyone mentioned Colonel Ned Green? 1913 Liberty Nickels and a sheet of upside down Flying Jennies stamps.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
A forum member has worked hard to obtain a bunch of WW-II pattern/experimental cent pieces. Oreville helped RWB with a book on the topic if I recall. I am sure someone will correct me if my memory is foggy.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I remember reading an article years ago on someone who was buying up all the 1920-D SLQs. I can’t remember the dealer’s name though.
For ultra-rarities that attract collectors with virtually limitless dollars I might be able to see hoarding working, financially. But for coins that are plentiful enough to obey normal supply-demand economics, I don't see it making financial sense. They will ride the supply-demand curve up in price as they are buying, then ride the exact same curve down when selling.
I can understand someone who just wants every example of something, maybe for research purposes, or as a compulsion.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Buying the coins at triple the price and then trying to sell them for even more seems like an interesting business strategy.
Sometimes you just need the price of copper to go up
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/819143/my-wheat-cents-hoard/
"Walter Breen reported a hoard of 200,000 Mint State cents of this date (1931-S) once held by Maurice Scharlack (introduced earlier as a hoarder of 1922-D cents)". "That's nearly one-quarter of the entire mintage"!
Sol Taylor recounts a tale by famed dealer Abe Kosoff in which Kosoff acquired two Mint State rolls from a dealer who allegedly owned hundreds more rolls. If true this may have been the same hoard described by Breen.
Source: The Complete Guide to LINCOLN CENTS by David W. Lange
The Sacagawea dollar / Washington quarter mule comes to mind. Tommy Bolack tried to capture that market, with good success, he owns 16/19 coins IIRC.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
This was discussed yesterday.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Hunt brothers come to mind.
The problem with "cornering the market" for any coin is that it assumes coin collectors are all speculators, and not coin collectors. In other words, it assumes that if someone posted a "want to buy" order for a specific coin that was two or three times the market rate, then everybody would do the economically logical thing and promptly sell their coins at that rate, thus allowing the creation of the monopoly.
Coin collectors are not logical. I'm a coin collector, and I'm not logical. The coins in my collection are not for sale, to anybody, for any price. Choose the most cheap, common and replaceable coin in my collection, and offer me a billion dollars for it. I will refuse. I'll happily swap out a coin in the collection for a better one, if you're up for the trade, but outright sell? Nope.
One day, those coins in my collection will indeed come up for sale. But not today. So if you're wanting to buy one of those coins out of my collection, today, you're out of luck. And I highly doubt I would be alone in this attitude. So to get "all the coins", you'd need to wait until every single coin collector alive today is dead and their coins have gone to market.
Meanwhile, while coin collectors are not logical, the supply-and-demand market that drives coin prices is logical. So if someone tried to "corner a market" in a coin, the price for that coin would increase as supply dried up. The would-be cornerer would find themselves needing to pay higher and higher prices for each example secured.
TL;DR: a market cornerer would not live long enough, nor have deep enough pockets, to carry out such a scheme.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
There was a hoarder up in Vermont who was found dead with the collections filling the house; the floors literally sagged with the weight of all the coins he had. Littleton cleaned out that hoard.
Cents haven't been made of copper for 40 years. I wonder how much of that hoard is copper and how much is zinc?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The coins in my collection are not for sale, to anybody, for any price. Choose the most cheap, common and replaceable coin in my collection, and offer me a billion dollars for it. I will refuse. I'll happily swap out a coin in the collection for a better one, if you're up for the trade, but outright sell? Nope.
I suppose there are people so bullheadedly principled in the world, but for every 1000 people who professes this, there are maybe one or two that would actually do it, given the opportunity. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if someone actually showed up with a billion dollars (in cash, if you'd like), you'd trade all of your worldly possessions for it in a heartbeat.
I have no intention of selling either, but there is a price point, and it's a miniscule fraction of a billion.
Thanks Joe. That is what I was referring to.
Pete
For some foreign issues it would be pretty simple. Canada often pushes out coins with low mintage (hundreds, not thousands) that take weeks to sell out due to lack of demand. with no demand, you could probably scoop them all up.
All can think of is the hunts on silver decades ago.
Otherwise Unless your a billionaire I don’t think that’s realistic.
However I simply try to have graded coins / PM at my table the other dealers in room not likely to have. Like quality low pop Mexico or world slabbed material like one piece Mex second republic silver piece Pcgs 65 pop 2/ 0. Or some key coin possibly only one room. Ditto on my graded WPM many top pop. Just sent in a WPM submission.
That way those other dealers in bourse room can’t under cut me or work some racket on me they have especially with some big gun rich dealer / racket they in collusion with where they can get it for less than me.
For a change of scenery / something different / innovative have gone to slabbed mods & bullion , WPM, raw US /world collector coins $60 and under. Sold about a dozen slabbed Mexico silver Libertads at last show. What happens is I pickup regular customers in these areas which adds synergy to the process. Or sometimes young parents which bought some bullion slabbed Star Wars issues for their kids.
That explains why the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. There are 25 scarcer Barber dimes in M64 that can be bought with less money. I won't be buying a 1913-S in the near future.
Anybody know the story behind the MS65 & MS66 1912-S Liberty (Barber
) nickels? A true original roll?
I heard when NGC accused PCGS of Grade inflation they used the 12-S nickel against them. What NGC didn't know was 2 cherry rolls of 12-S's were submitted.
Just to clarify, I don't think any of his are MS - or even AU. But I could be wrong; he may have expanded into higher grades.
What’s the difference between cornering the market, hoarding and passionate collecting? Intent? State of mind?
Agree with what you are saying. Think about this. Bowers in his Guidebook of Barber Silver Coins (2nd edition) states availability of the 1913-S in circulated grades is "3,000 to 4,000. Most are G-4." You said "...a dealer friend has around 4,000 now...." Typically, Bowers refers to 100,000+ being available in the lower grades.
The lack of finding one in the lower grades could increase demand for the higher grades and make collectors willing to pay up.
Anybody remember the copper cent hoard in several Rubbermaid trash cans in his garage. He was saving them for his son and buying them by the bag. A Ferrari was parked in the garage too.
Look 12 posts before yours.
Oops. Missed the COP 2.
Since there are estimated 15,000 1955 doubled die cents in existence, if each was worth on average $2000 (highly speculative) it would theoretically take 30M$ to buy all of them. However, how many are for sale at any given time? In other words, if you bought every example that came up for sale, how long would it take to gain even a majority of examples extant?
The mint not only refused to sell but took umbrage and it became policy to never again make short mint runs.
A lot of '31-S's were set aside anyway.
That hoard is from @compromonedas who indicates it's all wheat cents. How many wheat cents are zinc?
One of my all time favorite threads!
The 1794 half dollars were hoarded by one person for a number of years, he eventually had over 200 examples which greatly increased prices. They were sold over several auctions at Heritage 2017-19 where prices dropped around 50% - I bought seven different 1794 die marriages at the lower prices: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/984567/lots-of-1794-half-dollars-on-the-market
Send all those billionaires my way
I'll sell my coins for a billion dollars all day long!
None are zinc but some are zinc plated steel.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Agree. We can ask Keith @compromonedas if he filters them out or not
A large industrial magnet would work.
I can see a large retail coin company like Littleton selling these by the pound with a discount for larger quantities.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@seatedlib3991 said:
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
“Hello? Corner Market”
Silly.....
Not really, but the title of this thread made me think of this forum classic...
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/819143/my-wheat-cents-hoard/p1
A worthy blast from the past, that is. LOL
There was a guy (Dr. Roy Sturgeon) who compiled a "roll" of fifty 1793 Liberty Cap large cents some years ago. In fact, he ended up with 56 examples. They were sold off in 2002. Here is an external link to the story on largecents.net:
https://largecents.net/articles/article1.html
I got my slick 1913-S Barber Dime in the raw for $3.50
No kidding.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
That's a deal! What grade is it? I'm just not comfortable paying $2,350 or more for one in MS64 or better.
I had a friend named Buddy who tried to obtain every Churchill Crown. He wrote a book titled The Varieties of Churchill Crowns.
Was doing some random vamworld thread search... a comment in passing makes me think that some or most of the early VAM hunters are hoarding the 1878 8TF rarities.
Makes me think the true pop is 2X or 3X.
How many would actually grade?
At one point I cherrypicked three MS63 examples of a certain VAM, about 25% of the MS pop.
Also had found and sold three AU Details examples which covered my cost for the MS coins.
First sold for $2200 and a month later the other went for $1300. The third coin had some toning issues and went for $800.
All profits, but yes, supply and demand played a role.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Someone who tries to corner a market can get really unlucky, as when a hoard comes out, especially the $20 gold hoards have come out with relatively rare issues becoming a lot less so and less expensive.
In Seville, I cleaned two weekly bottom-feeder flea markets of Roman bits. New sellers would tell me about the guiri who bought everything when I harshed the prices. I have Roman and Spanish coins stashed with that stuff. I will post the coins in a thread with a bidet. My fave, whether it built the Ark, the Cross, or the Santa Maria:
Oh! Yeah, the slick 1913 s for three dollars and fifty cents is definitely a bargain.
I wanted album fillers for my Dansco and the Barber Dimes collection needs another 24 more, not including the 1894 s (is currently stuck at 50 coins).
After starting the slab purchases, just don't find myself spendimg those kimd of monies, so it probably staus in hiatus for a while.
Cheers.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
True.
Initially had gone the uber cheap route for my collections just wanting to fill Danscos and now in the process of slowly upgrading them all to slabbed versions of higher grades.
Managed to land a pair of 1878 8TF & 7TF in the raw for $155 (taxes and shipping included) on fleabay, but unfortunately it was cleaned. Got it graded by ANACS for $10 each and the 8TF came back with EF 40 details, so definitely no loss there.
Shall wait and watch coz am not at all in a hurry to upgrade those for the current prices they attract.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Seems to me I recall a couple of guys trying to control the '09 UHR Gold Eagle market constantly putting out high bids...and a lot of dealers worried that once they exited the market the numbers would tank.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I do not understand how a person would get out of their position without taking a bath or causing issues to rise in price considerably during acquisition.