Lunch with John Albanese
edwardjulio
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1922-S Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle PCGS MS-63 CAC (Witter Coin University - 2022 Charity Auction - Includes Lunch with John Albanese)
"The Old Granite Lady"
GreatCollections is pleased and honored to offer a very special coin with 100% of the auction proceeds being donated to Witter Coin University. WCU is raising $175,000 to fund 40 scholarships for Young Numismatists between the ages of 13 to 21 for an eight day "Fundamentals of Numismatics" seminar in San Francisco from July 23 to 31, 2022.
100% of the proceeds of this auction, including the full buyer's fee, will be donated to the Witter Coin University, a 501(c)(3) non profit organization.
The 1922-S Saint-Gaudens was once considered a greater rarity than the 1929, 1930-S, 1931 and 1932, however, a few small hoards were discovered overseas between 1950 and 1983. It is still rare - a much better date than its Philadelphia counterpart. Only 27 have been approved by CAC graded MS-63.
The special oversized PCGS holder with exclusive Witter Coin University label has signatures from all of the numismatic instructors of the university for 2022 including Jim Stoutjesdyk, Steven Feltner, Devin Hipp, John Brush, Kevin Kaufmann, David McCarthy and of course, university dean Seth Chandler.
This auction also comes with something special from John Albanese, founder and president of CAC. If you are local to CAC's headquarters in Far Hills, NJ, John will buy you lunch at his favorite Italian restaurant. If you are not local to CAC, you can have an exclusive hour-long phone call together - ask him how the industry has evolved - remember, he was a co-founder of PCGS before he started NGC and CAC - there is no one better to give you behind the scenes insight on numismatics.
The Fundamentals of Numismatics class that is being taught to the 40 Young Numismatists has an emphasis on coin grading, counterfeit detection, ethics and reputation awareness, numismatic history, and the various opportunities in the numismatic industry, among other things. WCU kicks off with an all day field trip around San Francisco, then five days of classroom instruction, highlighted by an amazing graduation dinner where each student receives a Witter Coin University Degree. During the week, nightly field trips will include the original San Francisco Mint, and Witter Coin - America's Coin Shop. Special guest speakers include Allen Rowe, Jessica Berkman, John Dannreuther, Chuck Link, and Doug Winter.
WCU encourages all YNs from ages 13 to 21 to apply next year for a scholarship. Please visit [-domain blocked-] for more information and if you would like to make a donation to the program.
WCU would like to thank GreatCollections (Ian Russell), PCGS (Steven Feltner, Keith Dewald, Heather Boyd, Stephanie Sabin), CAC (John Albanese), the seven instructors for 2022, Abby Zechman, and all bidders - especially the winning bidder. This would not have happened without you.
The Witter Coin Scholarship Fund is a 501(c)(3) non profit organization. All donations are fully tax deductible.
GreatCollections will assist the winning bidder with a formal appraisal of this coin. Generally speaking, donors who purchase items at a charity auction may claim a charitable contribution deduction for the excess of the purchase price paid for an item over its fair market value. GreatCollections does not offer tax advice and recommends bidders contact their own tax professional.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
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Comments
Good that they are raising donations for this. Almost $4400 per kid is probably too expensive for many families.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Probably? Many?
Unless you're very wealthy, $4,400 is an insane amount to spend on your kids hobby in a year, let alone for an educational/networking seminar.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
If your kid can become a successful numismatic dealer, it is more cost effective than 4 years of indoctrination.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
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That is a good cause program. It would be interesting to monitor the participants over the years post graduation. See if they became dealers, graders or just remain collectors. Cheers, RickO
Dang. I was hoping it was a giveaway.
Neat opportunity for a young collector. Eight day trip for $4400 is not bad at all. Best of luck to those that apply and take part in it. Enjoy the time in San Fran.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Does anybody know if airfare, lodging and meals are included?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
All inclusive AFAIK.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
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Pales compared to travel sports, sleep away camp, braces, pool membership and hell even a weekend at Disney. $4400 ain’t what it used to be. If my kids showed even the slightest inclination towards numismatics I would send all of them
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Great way to get more young kids into coins. Even if they don’t make a living in numismatics if they eventually become knowledgeable collectors it’s a tremendous success.
Congrats to Great Collections!
Yeah, and how much money do you make? You can afford it, most cannot.
Travel sports, sleep away camp, pool membership, weekends at Disney... This is stuff for the well-off folks, upper middle class, not normal folks. Middle class families can't afford most of that, and haven't been able to for a while. Median income in this country was $67,521 in 2020. $4,400 is beyond the pale to spend on a hobby for the vast majority of US families. Aint nobody got $4400 to spend on this when they are making $80k a year.
I'll be donating another $500 this year. It's for a great, great cause.
Just to further my point; If we go almost 20% over median and say you make $80k a year, on a monthly budget breaks out at $6,666.67/month.
$300k House w/ 20% down - $1,700
Fed Income Tax - $300
State Income Tax - $210
Retirement Savings- $800
Healthcare Ins/Expense - $800
House Utilities/Phone - $400
Home Maintenance - $300
Groceries - $600
Car Payments - $600
Car Gas/Maint - $300
Pets - $100
Vacation - $400
That right there is $6,510 a month. Leaves roughly $150/month in discretionary if I'm not forgetting anything. Times 12 months is $1,800 annual budget for the whole family's discretionary spending. So where's this $4,400 coming from?
I get a lot of y'all are pretty well off, being coin collectors, but it's TOUGH out there if you aren't making 6 figures a year in household income. Scholarships aren't just nice, they're a necessity to stop this from turning into a camp full of well-off kids.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I've been putting more than $400 a month in gas in my car. Not to mention all the others bills DelawareDoons mentioned.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I wish stuff like this existed when I was a kid. Although I’d imagine the odds of me winning the scholarship would be nil. Lol. Oh well, a great opportunity for those who get to participate.
Hoping to get back to an ANA course someday. Not a financial issue at this point but one of timing and such.
I agree with your points but would add for the most part this is an upper-middle class and up hobby. Coins are by definition require large amounts of disposable income. Many of the coins posted on this forum cost more than a months salary for your example and that is pretax. Most of the YN I have ever met were kids of upper middle class and up families so I am not going off the median income form the county I am going off of my perceived notion of the median income for the hobby
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I'd love to pay $300 in Fed Income Tax on approximately $6,700 monthly income! Which country are we writing about!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I got back into this hobby making $12k a year in 2009. I make sub $40k a year now at my day job. This doesn't have to be a upper-middle-class and up hobby, and the acceptance of it as the same greatly limits the overall market, especially in a world where income disparity is only continuing to accelerate.
I can't imagine where I'd be today, as a collector, if more folks actually cared to not put blinders on and actually tried to understand how difficult it is to be into coins when you aren't wealthy, and worked to help create opportunities for less well off folks to partake in numismatics at a deeper level than the basic stuff I started with. I had no mentors, no opportunities like Witter Coin U, and didn't qualify for ANA Summer Seminar scholarships. Yet, I found success in this hobby, and if my dumb ass can pull that off, I know there's a ton of kids out there that can do the same, and those kids are the future of this hobby... So don't ignore 'em and pretend they don't exist.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
A couple with two children between the ages of 6 and 17 making $80,000 a year and claiming the standard deduction would actually only owe $193 or $16 per month in Federal Taxes for the entire year. However the $80,000 would be subject for FICA at 15.2% or about $1250 per month so that puts the couple in the hole using @DelawareDoons example.
I don't agree with all the numbers in the example, some should be higher, some lower but is is a fairly good example of whet most people in that income bracket are facing these days.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Many of us YN left the hobby when we were young broke workers and and come back later. You're conflating participating and swimming in the deep-end while glossing over that reading and studying don't take much investment. Ownership is a different matter and poor people have never been able to accumulate much gold and silver throughout all of human history let alone for fun. So being realistic on what you collect matters. No amount of mentoring will get someone who makes 40k a year a 1861d Dollar. The spark simply can't come from the thrill of possession and accusation or the hobby isn't sustainable to all but a few.
This very fundraiser is by definition "not pretending they don't exist" and trying to do something to help the kids who can't. My only point was many of the hobby's parents can afford 4400. so the scholarships are intended for a bunch who cant.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Fair enough, I just get a bit tilted when I see people acting as if that kind of money isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal to most families.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Fair but there are also over 22 million millionaires out there too so 4400 isn't a huge deal to huge amount of people too. both can be true. That isn't taking a side of the equality of income distribution either, just the facts. But this isn't healthcare it is just a hobby so we typically like to save the self righteous indignation for later in the week than a Monday please
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
8 days in San Francisco = priceless:
Edit to add - my nephew and I visited Witter Coin on Thursday and received a wonderful tour from Seth and his staff. Any trip to San Francisco for the numismatic minded should include a stop at Witter.
Tim
Here's a link to the auction: https://greatcollections.com/Coin/1204117/1922-S-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-PCGS-MS-63-CAC-Witter-Coin-University--2022-Charity-Auction--Includes-Lunch-with-John-Albanese
I wonder which Italian restaurant was CAC certified????
I assume there will be on-site grading at the lunch.
Yes, they are.
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
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Hi Folks. There really shouldn’t be a debate as to who can afford it or not. Affordability isn’t an option. Paying your own way isn’t an option.
All 40 Young Numismatists who are attending Witter Coin University are doing so on an all expenses paid scholarship completed funded by generous donors who deeply care about the youth within our hobby. No student puts up a penny. This includes hotel, airfare, meals, two field trips, swag gear, and I’m sure I’m missing something. WCU even pays the way for a parent or guardian if the student is under 18.
This works out to about 4k per YN for the 8 day event.
There are kids from all walks of life attending - from poor kids to rich kids. The common denominator is that they love coins. Who can we have the most impact on? - is the question we ask ourselves.
This event would not happen without the six instructors taking time off from their families and business to be able to teach this outstanding group of YNs.
Donors makes this happen as well. Every single dollar contributed is much appreciated.
Keep bidding on the 1922-S!!!!
Thank you for your support.
Seth
Thanks @SethChandler. My bid is in....
Tim
FICA tax would be closer to 500/month 7.65% unless they are self employed. Any way you look at it would be hard for a kid from a middle class family to pay the tuition.
Wow, just wow on @SethChandler and his generosity, along with the others putting in their time and money. Those kids will have the experience of a lifetime for sure!
I'm one of the fortunate ones that one would consider "well off" now, but way back when I was more broke than not, I still fantasized about getting a 1909-S VDB or a 1921 half dollar. It took many years, and eventually I did get examples of both. Of course results won't be the same for everyone, different paths for different folks. I'm hoping those kids going to Witter University have dream coins that they can fantasize about, and perhaps actually get one day.
10-4,
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Part of the experience of WCU is we have "Pizza Night at the Shop". We where bring out many dream coins. Last year was a 1927-D Saint, among other things. This year is a 1885 Gold Proof Set, some of the finest Proof Morgans around, Gem BU early gold, Pioneer, MS68 Gold and Silver Type. Its usually myself, and Devin Hipp or Steve Feltner that sits with each YN to explain the context of these dream coins. Loads a fun. Rule #143, you cannot graduate from WCU if you do not hold a $1,000,000 coin!
Seth
It might be at a place called Wawa.
This is smart. Imagine how much trouble kids can find in San Francisco without oversight.
It's a great cause, and already some graduates from last year are working in the industry.
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I'd also love to not have to pay $600/month property taxes on a $300K house.
Nevertheless, $4,400 is not a bad investment if it is an effective fast track into the industry and the student is legitimately interested in going that way. Much better than dropping out of college $80,000 into it, or worse, investing even more time and money on a grievance studies degree.
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Let's be objective. Kids can find trouble in any major city without oversight. I lived in Chicago for nine years and Dallas for five years. I find San Francisco much less intimidating.
Tim
That’s really expensive lol. When I first saw the thread I thought perhaps he was buying lunch for attendees at a seminar of his. It wb much better take ones kid to a coin show and look at coins in the marketplace, talk to dealers, view their coins, perhaps buy a few. Get out on the bourse at a show for a real market experience.
Interesting post. Sounds like a good cause.
We're pushing 70. Lately I've been thinking about life in our later years. We are both relatively healthy.
We have no pension.
We do not currently have any SS (soon/ 70+)
For the past 5 years, interest income hasn't been much.
no investments in the market (should of, would of, could of).
Our car is from 2005 (vintage yet?).
I was thinking... if I had to come up with $4500 for a child, I would probably invest in some leg irons. I would chain my wife to the kitchen , once a day, and ring a bell when it's time to cook. The shackles would pay for themselves in no time. LOL
In the meantime, I need to plan for tomorrow. Planning has been my life for the past 40 years and I'm not going to stop now in the prime of life.
.
Great ideas, thank you for your input. I am always looking to improve WCU.
Witter Coin University details can also be found here https://www.wittercoinfund.com/
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
Interesting points being discussed on this thread…….
But, to me, the fact that Seth is actually doing something on a very fundamental, meaningful level is enormously encouraging. Lots of people talk, not so many would put in the effort to make something like this successful. Kudos to all involved.
Seth chatted with me for a few minutes after an auction we both attended a few years back. I came away with the feeing that he actually cared about my take on things. I’ll buy from them every chance I get. If business ever takes me back to SF you bet I’ll stop by the shop.
The auction ends tonight. Please consider bidding.
Link:
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1204117/1922-S-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-PCGS-MS-63-CAC-Witter-Coin-University--2022-Charity-Auction--Includes-Lunch-with-John-Albanese-from-photo