Is this proof Kennedy an Accented Hair?

lordmarcovan

Sorry for the pic. I'm no good at identifying this variety.

Mr_Spud

I don’t think so, but the haziness makes it harder to tell than usual. Here’s an accent hair for comparison

joeykoins

No Rob, but keep searching.
These are special!

lordmarcovan

They yawn ME to death. LOL. But I figured I should know. Thanks.

FlyingAl

No, easiest way to tell is if the lines are incuse. Just forget the die markers and look at the hairlines when you turn the coin. Take for example this example I have, where the lines pop when you turn Kennedy's face to the light:

braddick

My down and quick way of determining is looking at the sideburn.

MFeld

@braddick said:
My down and quick way of determining is looking at the sideburn.

Same here.

oih82w8

I think that you have read enough "no's" that you don't need to read it again from me.

gonzer

I understand that Jackie O disliked the accented hair look and this was the reason for the re-design. I fail to see the problem. What did the Mint discern as unacceptable?

joeykoins

@gonzer said:
I understand that Jackie O disliked the accented hair look and this was the reason for the re-design. I fail to see the problem. What did the Mint discern as unacceptable?

I believe, it was just the opposite. She didn't like the original?
I could be wrong?

morgandollar1878

No go on this one.

fiftysevener

Sort of on subject but why are the nicer Accent Hair examples with heavy contrast so rare ? If the nicer Cameos were likely saved when the sets were sold for bullion, where are they ?

lordmarcovan

@morgandollar1878 said:
No go on this one.

I expected as much, but wanted to be sure.

FlyingAl

@fiftysevener said:
Sort of on subject but why are the nicer Accent Hair examples with heavy contrast so rare ? If the nicer Cameos were likely saved when the sets were sold for bullion, where are they ?

They weren’t likely saved. They got the same treatment as every other proof, which would be the melting pot when silver hit record highs.

JBK

The easiest way to tell is to read the label on the slab.

jmlanzaf

@FlyingAl said:
No, easiest way to tell is if the lines are incuse. Just forget the die markers and look at the hairlines when you turn the coin. Take for example this example I have, where the lines pop when you turn Kennedy's face

I think the "I" is easier to see.

lordmarcovan

@JBK said:
The easiest way to tell is to read the label on the slab.

This, for sure! LOL

alaura22

@joeykoins said:

@gonzer said:
I understand that Jackie O disliked the accented hair look and this was the reason for the re-design. I fail to see the problem. What did the Mint discern as unacceptable?

I believe, it was just the opposite. She didn't like the original?
I could be wrong?

I think you're correct
I remember that when the coin came out Jackie O didn't like the way the hair was in the area where he was shot and asked them to change the hair detail.
Chime in if I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but I think this is the way it went.

ricko

Not an AH Kennedy.... Just one more vote from a guy that has a lot of them. I just look at the hair above the ear, though I also check the I usually. Used to be fun at coin shows in the PNW when Russ and I would go... and race to see who would get the AH's. Cheers, RickO

1630Boston

On Dec. 17, Roberts showed a prototype of the coin to the president’s widow. He told interviewer David Lisot in a videotaped American Numismatic Association Numismatic Profile in 1991, “They wanted Mrs. Kennedy to see — this is the portrait that is on the half dollar. And I had emphasized the part in his hair.

“He had a great shock of hair as you recall, and most artists, when they did a Kennedy portrait, they made a lot of this shock of hair, thinking that’s going to help them to make it look like Kennedy, you know. Well, they were right, but they had a tendency to overemphasize this part in his hair. And Mrs. Kennedy looked at the coin, and she said, ‘Could you muss up his hair a little bit?’

more info here https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1078356/jackie-o-asks-for-mussed-up-hair-on-kennedy-half-dollar#latest

fiftysevener

@FlyingAl said:

@fiftysevener said:
Sort of on subject but why are the nicer Accent Hair examples with heavy contrast so rare ? If the nicer Cameos were likely saved when the sets were sold for bullion, where are they ?

They weren’t likely saved. They got the same treatment as every other proof, which would be the melting pot when silver hit record highs.

Sure but after talking to a couple major dealers [one who says he may have opened 100,000 sets] I am told that the nicer cameos were saved. Think they're still out there ?

FlyingAl

@fiftysevener said:

@FlyingAl said:

@fiftysevener said:
Sort of on subject but why are the nicer Accent Hair examples with heavy contrast so rare ? If the nicer Cameos were likely saved when the sets were sold for bullion, where are they ?

They weren’t likely saved. They got the same treatment as every other proof, which would be the melting pot when silver hit record highs.

Sure but after talking to a couple major dealers [one who says he may have opened 100,000 sets] I am told that the nicer cameos were saved. Think they're still out there ?

Well 100,000 sets would equate to roughly 3% of the original mintage. If we assume that 5% of all 1964 halves are AH halves, then roughly 198,000 should exist.

If we take that 3% of the mintage, then there would be roughly 5,296 AH halves in those 100,000 sets. Currently, about 0.84% of all AH halves sent to PCGS and NGC are certified as DCAM. So roughly 45 halves in those 100,000 sets would be Accented Hair DCAMs mathematically.

Only 1,681 AH DCAMs would exist in the entire mintage mathematically. 230 have already been found, which is about 14% in our lab scenario. The chances of more than 20% of those 1,681 sets out of almost 4,000,000 surviving is very low. I think very few exist left to be found, and I would be surprised if the dealer actually saved those 45 coins, and even then, what happened when he sold them? The next dealer to get them could easily melt them and then they are lost forever. Cameos weren't really thought about much in those times, and very few dealers knew what one was. I would imagine that the dealers that saved them couldn't sell them for much more than a brilliant proof so they didn't end up saving them. It's unfortunately how it is.

oreville

I look at the I for the double L look to tell the difference.

MarkInDavis

I always look at the left bottom serif on the "I" in LIBERTY which is present, so not an accented hair.