1794 Cap Bust Large Cent...what details grade do you think this coin might receive? Inhand photos.

jesbroken

Thanks for looking. Your opinions please. I promise not to cry.
Jim

amwldcoin

All I will say is market grading will most likely knock the details grade received.

jesbroken

@amwldcoin said:
All I will say is market grading will most likely knock the details grade received.

I understand that, as this is not but an S-22 R-1 due to the damage was the only reason I could afford to purchase it and still have decent details. Just for an opinion, that's all.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

if one can get it bought right, that is a good way to have an affordable piece of early american coinage.

i really haven't paid much attention to how details coins are getting assessed these days but it looks like technical VF details but i don't know how much it will get knocked back.

i wonder how much time they spend authenticating something like this and there are many.

very nice pics and presentation.

jesbroken

The die crack through the 4 and the raised 2nd 0 with 1 almost touching crossbar makes it easy to attach a Sheldon number to it. Thanks.
Jim

JimW

I agree with the previous comments - and it seems that how these early coppers with problems are graded is one of the least consistent areas of TPG grading. We've all seen coins that one can't possibly imagine how they were straight-graded, and others that look pretty solid in details holders. Good Luck!

lkenefic

VF details (strong date) but it looks like this coin had heavy surface corrosion that got worked out and this is what was underneath.

I've been looking at raw 1794s lately and they seem to be all over the map as far as what sort of damage is "market acceptable". Some vendors are letting the market sort it out and offer pieces like this at auctions starting at 99 cents... other vendors have BIN prices set to more than straight graded PCGS Price Guide values. I bid what I thought was strong money on a harshly cleaned VG8 (1795)... three other collectors thought otherwise...

jesbroken

I just liked what was left on this coin and I'm overlooking what 220 odd years did to the coin. I have looked at over 400 photos of 1794 liberty cap large cents and not one had the details left that this coin has for under $600. So many had really nice obverses then with no reverses or barely a reverse. I really just wanted a readable date and liberty with an outline of a bust and similar reverse, but not easily found. Really nice ones are in the 4 digit price range which left me out. Thanks for your comments. I do not have intentions of sending this in as it will go in my new The_Dinosaur_Man's specially made album for my coin set, as soon as it arrives. lol P.O. has changed arrival dates twice now and neither were correct.
Jim

Omegaraptor

@jesbroken said:
I just liked what was left on this coin and I'm overlooking what 220 odd years did to the coin. I have looked at over 400 photos of 1794 liberty cap large cents and not one had the details left that this coin has for under $600. So many had really nice obverses then with no reverses or barely a reverse. I really just wanted a readable date and liberty with an outline of a bust and similar reverse, but not easily found. Really nice ones are in the 4 digit price range which left me out. Thanks for your comments. I do not have intentions of sending this in as it will go in my new The_Dinosaur_Man's specially made album for my coin set, as soon as it arrives. lol P.O. has changed arrival dates twice now and neither were correct.
Jim

Nearly all Liberty Cap cents have much weaker reverses than obverses. This is due to lower relief and the screw press used to strike coins during this time. The obverse was the hammer die and whether you got a strong reverse or not depended on how tired the mint worker was (and after striking a thousand coins or so you bet he would be tired).

braddick

I like it.

Walkerguy21D

Not sure if it makes Vf details, but it’s close.

WilliamF

VF Details, Damage, corrosion
Almost all of my Liberty Cap large cents would grade similar if I sent them in, I think its just part of those early coppers that we cant do anything about, most of them are in not very good condition but I love 'em anyway

Walkerguy21D

@WilliamF said:
VF Details, Damage, corrosion
Almost all of my Liberty Cap large cents would grade similar if I sent them in, I think its just part of those early coppers that we cant do anything about, most of them are in not very good condition but I love 'em anyway

Yep! Even my expensive one is Details. But as an S54, it’s in or close to the condition census for the variety.

jesbroken

That is a beauty, Greg. Thanks for sharing.
Jim

lkenefic

I'm thinking the TPG's might be more tolerant of issues on lower graded material? Just a thought... My 1794 Liberty Cap is straight-graded, but not without issues...

jclovescoins

Fine details. I was thinking VF looking at the obverse but the reverse certainly isn’t VF

jesbroken

Wow, but that is a beautiful 94, Ikenefic.
Jim

lkenefic

@jesbroken said:
Wow, but that is a beautiful 94, Ikenefic.
Jim

Thanks... I wanted at least one straight grade Liberty Cap for the type. I opted for an earlier die state because I wanted a better struck reverse. Most of these come with poorly indexed dies making the reverse weakly struck.

WilliamF

WilliamF

All damaged in some way or another and all them incredible

jesbroken

Walkerguy21D

@Omegaraptor said:

@jesbroken said:

Nearly all Liberty Cap cents have much weaker reverses than obverses. This is due to lower relief and the screw press used to strike coins during this time. The obverse was the hammer die and whether you got a strong reverse or not depended on how tired the mint worker was (and after striking a thousand coins or so you bet he would be tired).

@lkenefic said:
Thanks... I wanted at least one straight grade Liberty Cap for the type. I opted for an earlier die state because I wanted a better struck reverse. Most of these come with poorly indexed dies making the reverse weakly struck.

Ok guys, what do you think the PCGS grade is on this Liberty Cap, sorry for the glare, and marks and scratches are on the slab:

lkenefic

Haha... @Walkerguy21D ... I think I know the answer to this, so I'll keep my mouth shut. Maybe I should have put "straight-grade" in air quotes... lol..

jesbroken

I think it should be a VF35 if straight graded by PCGS. It may have been cleaned which might prevent a straight grade. That is about as nice a cap bust reverse as I have looked at(as I don't look at 5 digit priced large cents) lol
Jim

Walkerguy21D

Oh it’s straight graded alright, but the weak strike on the obverse killed the grade. The white patch is glare, it’s uniform brown.

Walkerguy21D

But apparently the 1795 lettered edge cents have the opposite problem than ‘94s; weak obverse, strong reverse. Here’s my low grade raw example:

jesbroken

The obverse always seems to kill more grades than the reverse. Shame as that is a most beautiful reverse.
Jim

Nysoto

Possibly vf20 details obverse, it doesn't really matter if the coin has the detail for the price that a person wants.

My 1794 Pyramidal head has some issues but I like it, PCGS F12:

Walkerguy21D

Here’s my thin planchet plain edge ‘95. I think the thinner planchet helped to balance the strike on both sides more evenly. Again scratches and glare on the slab detracts a bit.

lkenefic

Here's the 1794 I picked up at Baltimore this Spring. There are a couple of patches on the obverse that look like planchet flaws to me in hand, and a small spot of verdigris on the reverse. I believe this is an S-62.

jesbroken

I received my 1794 today and was I ever pleased! It was way better than the seller's photo. Here is the coin pictured and as it looks inhand. Actual color inhand with no juicing in any way. Maybe a tad darker, not much if at all.
Jim

Walkerguy21D

Looks much more original, Jim.
Nice pickup!

ricko

I would say VF details, corroded. I would still be happy to have it in my collection. Cheers, RickO

Eddi

Putting my EAC hat on, I would grade it F15, possibly VF20 details, with a net grade of G4 due to corrosion which left pits on both of obverse and reverse.

It reminds me of this coin in my collection, 1793 S-9, pitted surfaces obverse and reverse (fully stable).

lkenefic

When I was attempting to get a complete date set of Large Cents, the 1793's I was looking at had far less "meat" on them. I'd be thrilled to have this piece in my collection!

SiriusBlack

I don’t have a problem with it either. That’s exactly the kind of coin I’d put in one of my albums given the costs involved for a problem free coin with similar meat left.