For the love of Barbers
rokky
Posts: 308 ✭✭✭✭
IMO, the 1914-S is a very underrated date, and always has been. And with an identical mintage as the highly revered, and outrageously priced, 16-D Merc, this coin seems like a sure-fire bargain and solid value. After examining the PCGS population report for coins graded Fair 2 thru XF45, the 14-S is vastly scarcer than the 16-D, by far. However, there are about only 160 16-D offered on eBay right now, compared to roughly 670 14-S. Most of the 16-D are certified low grade examples, while most of the 14-S are uncertified low grade examples. Below is a breakdown of the PCGS population report. Figures are approximate, taken from PCGS CoinFacts. NGC population report has not been taken into account.
In AU grades, the numbers are just as disparaging, in favor of the 14-S. It’s only in mintstate grades that the 16-D overtakes the 14-S, but not by a long shot.
This is my 14-S
Comments
You're comparing a non-key (1914-S quarter) to a key (1916-D dime) in a different series, that's far more widely collected and enjoys significantly more demand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Price is a function of supply and demand. Comparing the supply side of the equation without any consideration of the demand side isn't going to yield meaningful results.
There are numerous examples of high priced coins that arent actually that rare (the 1909 S VDB for example), and on the flip side, there are truly low mintage coins that aren't in a popular series or don't have a catchy story that have never become popular and are therefore not that expensive.
I agree with Mark in that you have taken a series that is widely loved (Mercury dimes), can be completed in most circulated grades by an enormous number of collectors and one that has relatively few difficult coins (let alone key dates or "stoppers") and then compared it to a series that has its fans as well as myriad detractors (Barber quarters), cannot be completed in most circulated grades by the great bulk of collectors and one that has many difficult coins (especially the "big three" key dates).
The relative lack of complete series pressure reduces the demand for the 1914-S with respect to the 1916-D and it is the demand that drives the prices of these coins.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Yet were it not for the 96-S, 01-S, and 13-S it would be a totally different story.
But they exist.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Like I said before, this is simply my opinion. I understand what everyone is saying, but as a collector of key and semi-key date coins (I don’t collect to complete a series anymore), I feel this coin has excellent upside potential once it gets the recognition it deserves. To me, recognition is the key word here.
I agree with you and collect in a similar way. I've never been much of a set collector, though I must admit that I do have a Barber Quarter set and I am trying to upgrade it as we speak. But, that is a bit of an aberration for me as I generally just look for coins that offer value and upside potential.
Tom
I have been seriously collecting Barber Halves for over a decade now and in the last couple of years added the dimes and quarters. Since I started I have seen the demand for nice Barbers grow tremendously.
I think the market is at the point if just a few more seriously start on this venture prices with rise even more than they already have.
Ironically I just sold 97-S within the hour. Perhaps it’s because of your thread?
There are dozens of Seated coins with only a couple hundred known examples that sell for a small fraction of the price of a 16-D Merc. Problem is, a complete date/mm set of, say, Seated Quarters is very difficult and just not within reach for an average collector. The 70-CC 71-CC and 73-CC are all stoppers, and there are droves of semi-keys that sell for hundreds in low grades, if you can even find them. Half Dimes also have a lot of scarcities and are a lot more doable but their small size really hurts their popularity.
There are Liberty Head gold coins with fewer than 100 known examples that are surprisingly affordable for what they are... but completing any date/mm set of Liberty Head gold makes Seated Quarters look like a cheap endeavor. Very few collectors can afford to do it.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
While you might be right about the recognition factor, I've heard the same about many other coins, for decades. If an issue that was produced over 100 years ago hasn't already received its due, what makes you think it might happen in the foreseeable future and how?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I stopped collecting coins to complete a series many years ago. And even though I have a few complete sets remaining , my collection slowly morphed since then, becoming more about quality keys and semi-keys compared to quantity of common date material.
I had an almost complete set of Barber Quarters, and like so many other collectors I had a single glaring hole in my album. And we all know which coin belongs in that hole. I haven’t ever had one….yet. But believe me, it’s at the top of my want list. It will happen, it’s just a matter of being at the right place at the right time. Is your set complete? Do you have the 01-S?
Ahhh, if we can verify that, please keep me in mind if I look to make a purchase from you 😉🤣😂 (I love Barbers, all series) I’ve been looking for a 97-S, but with the centered mintmark. Extremely tough coin to locate, especially in higher grades. I’d be very very happy with an AU, but I have only seen one in the past God knows how MANY years.
Generations change. Tastes change. People change. It’s just a matter of time. And all it needs is a spark.
I also don’t think you can compare the two (14-S quarter and 16-D dime)
I do believe the 14-S is an overrated date and find the 7-S, 8-S, 9-S, 11-S and 12-S to be more challenging in similar grades.
Finally, low mintage and scarcity are obviously different things, but worth mentioning in this discussion.
Good luck with your Barber Quarters. An awesome series!!!
Lenny
I love Barber coinage! It's a great series to collect.
Actually I found those dates in AU with relative ease compared to an AU 14-S. But I do respect your opinion. As of now, there’s only one more Barber Quarter I’m interested in, and it most certainly won’t be an AU. Not many collectors can afford an AU 01-S, let alone a very low grade also. It will happen. Just got to be at the right place at the right time. Anyway, good luck with your endeavors also Lenny!
I do, but only because I bought a complete set, mostly in low grade, from a dealer friend. My 96-s is G4, my 01-s is AG3 and my 13-s is VG8, all slabbed. I have been trying to upgrade the set to AU+-ish coins since then, but there certainly are more than a few stoppers, including the above. Plus, the 97-s, 09-o and 14-s are also very tough.
Tom
That will be quite a set when you complete it. I’ve been looking for a 97-S also, but the centered mintmark variety. That 09-O is a killer too. Trying to locate an XF/AU of both for quite some time now.
@rokky here's mine!
I collected all three Barber series once upon a time, in the mid-grades.
All were challenging, but the quarters especially so…. and that was excluding the big three.
Very rare to see 1901-S in that grade. In low grades they are not that rare, the value is just driven up by demand. But above VG-10 the 1901-S becomes a true rarity.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
Yikes! What a coin!
Tom
Well everything’s a huge step-down after that, but here’s a decent 1913 Half that I purchased within the past year.
Just finished a VF-AU Barber Half set, with help from amwldcoin. Saw Darrell at the 2020 and 2022 Winter FUN Shows, and added three tough ones (96-P, 97-O, and 02-S). Started a few years ago ; decent and better examples have gone from scarce to almost rare, except for Darrell. The overwhelming majority otherwise have been ruined (ie. dipped or cleaned). They are in the LOC's, and the 2022 FUN was a rare chance to show them off. The higher prices are simply not bringing them out of the woodwork, as most are in strong hands and might not appear for decades.
@stevefromne Congrats on the completion of your set! Do you have the 92-micro o? I agree with you that most of these coins are in strong hands. But when they do appear, however long that may take, look out. Demand will increase. Prices will skyrocket.
When you started buying from me my for sale inventory was over 2000 PCGS graded Barber Halves. It's almost half that now including all the purchases made in between.
No micro-O, the 92 regular O, purchased as a PCGS AU 58 twenty plus years ago MIGHT be a PL if I were to ever send it in.
First pic I have attached, unsure how big it will be, apologies if it's enormous.
Nice pic, not ginormous Lol! It has a nice cameo appearance to it. I like it 👌 the others look like nice original coins too.
1897-S Ctr.S BQ just received from Mike Schwede:
'14-S and '16-D have been compared for ages stemming from the mintage figure similarity. They are what they are for those who collect them and have interest in them.
Here is another from Brian Greer:
1914-S is available in lower grades. Gets a little tougher as the grade gets higher:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@sedulous
I’ve only ever seen one AU example of the 97-s centered, and it was certified by NGC I believe. I really wanted to purchase it, but it just wasn’t the right time as my funds were all tied up elsewhere. I come across low grade examples once in a while on eBay, but nothing high grade. That 14-S looks like a really nice all original coin. VF35? Looks like it’s splitting hairs with XF40.
Here's a PCGS VF30 I picked up raw on ebay years ago and subsequently certified. It's a centered mintmark 1897-S and I recognized it immediately in the auction. Oddly enough, it was offered by a non-coin person who had no idea what they had.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I remember this one from a separate thread. And I just purchased one also, but sadly, it is only a G-4
Tom
That’s a really nice coin Tom. I would definitely purchase. It’s problem free and rare at this grade level. Usually found in AG-VG condition.
I have a small number of them in AG-VG that I have picked up over the years when they are choice, pristine originals at a reasonable price. They are definitely available in AG-G, but above that become quite scarce.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
While I do agree with you in general, one glaring exception in the Barber quarters is the 1909 O which was a sleeper until about 5 + years ago.
Suddenly, it was recognized as a scarcity.
Back in 2000 I was able to buy two pieces for about melt, in Good condition.
Others [about 5 pieces were all under $10] which now trend for $65 in Good.
I have a number in VG, of which one also came out of junk silver, for a massive $1.64 on 09/10/2000
so, yes there are still sleepers.
Just not the '14S, but it is underappreciated because of the big 3.
Back in the 1990's as I walked into the local bi-monthly coin show dealers would call to me that they had gotten some Barbers [dimes & quarters mostly] and I was one of the only local collectors/hoarders of them. Usually I got them below bid, since no one else wanted them
BHNC #203
Agreed, nice original pieces in AG & VG are available, but getting pricey.
I have a small bunch of them.
My best is a VF, best only because I never had the chance to get a nicer one in original condition
BHNC #203
Wonder if Tom still thinks they aren’t worth much of a premium?
Just located a 97-S centered on eBay. An original coin graded by PCGS VF35. You’re not going to like the price though. Wow.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324626189508?hash=item4b953a8cc4:g:2R8AAOSwj09goGvt
That’s worthy of an LOL!
Decent for the grade Barber Half
In AG-G I don't think the center mintmark 1897-S is worth much of a premium. I pick them up from time-to-time because they aren't worth much and I like them.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I've handled several....although I don't go lower than all but full Rim G's. I've always had to pay a premium and have sold every one for 50% more than the far right MM.
stupid price
BHNC #203
I think part of the problem with your comparison is that dimes are thought to be more "affordable" than quarters. Thus, the stronger interest in Mercury dimes than Barber quarters or even Standing Liberty quarters. The other factor is the quantity of Barber quarters available in good condition. Quarters wear better than dimes. The quantity of PCGS 1914-S graded coins is most likely vastly understated by the fact that a 1916-D Mercury Dime is valued by PCGS in G6 at $1,500; whereas, the 1914-S Barber quarter is valued at $150; thus, the lack of interest in submission for grading.
By the way, I do like Barbers. What is the grade of your 1914-S quarter? I think Barbers are getting harder to find in NGC holders.