You came asking about the huge gap between the dashed line and the red ad. Did anyone give you a great reason for how that could have happened and the card still be legit?
Also, I've been in this group for over 15 years and I don't ever remember this group saying something was a fake, then being proven wrong.
Guess it would be the first time ever there was a misprint, never seen nothing like that before.
You came asking about the huge gap between the dashed line and the red ad. Did anyone give you a great reason for how that could have happened and the card still be legit?
Also, I've been in this group for over 15 years and I don't ever remember this group saying something was a fake, then being proven wrong.
Guess it would be the first time ever there was a misprint, never seen nothing like that before.
First time for everything I guess right...
Yes, there is a first time for everything. That's why I say, if you already own it, go ahead and send it in, not much of a financial risk. But if you are looking to purchase it for $3K, it certainly is a risk I wouldn't take and it appears to me that nobody that has seen this post would take the risk either.
Let's look at it from a different angle. If this was real and a lot of people on this board thought it was real, you would have multiple private messages from people interested in buying it from you. How many private messages have you received from people that are interested in purchasing this from you?
If you had asked for advice on a much older player, maybe an oddball card, I would maybe think you have a point. But when you are dealing with Mantle the guys here should be and are considered experts because they have shared so much knowledge and research on these boards over the last 20 years. Mantle is still the king of cards and his threads easily outnumber any other player by a long shot. For example look at all the Mantle stuff Wheaties posted. While that is impressive there are probably 15 to 20 other guys on this Forum who have just as much.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@Cakes said:
If you had asked for advice on a much older player, maybe an oddball card, I would maybe think you have a point. But when you are dealing with Mantle the guys here should be and are considered experts because they have shared so much knowledge and research on these boards over the last 20 years. Mantle is still the king of cards and his threads easily outnumber any other player by a long shot. For example look at all the Mantle stuff Wheaties posted. While that is impressive there are probably 15 to 20 other guys on this Forum who have just as much.
Thank you but I think adding “…if not more stuff, better stuff and who know much more, too...” makes that last sentence considerably more accurate.
I’ve learned quite a lot here, myself, and continue to do so.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
The style of printing is not correct, the colors on the front are off, the stock is off, the back’s color is off, the “Collect” tab is not there, the card edges are white instead of the same as the back and the item is an exact match for a known style of 1959 Bazooka Mickey Mantle reprint.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
The style of printing is not correct, the colors on the front are off, the stock is off, the back’s color is off, the “Collect” tab is not there, the card edges are white instead of the same as the back and the item is an exact match for a known style of 1959 Bazooka Mickey Mantle reprint.
And there you have it. Wheaties has shared why it's not good. But it looks like the OP is vested in convincing himself it's legit. So enjoy the "Mantle".
Buy it and send it to PSA. Please post the results. Meanwhile, this forum is not a resource to help scammers make better fakes. I challenge you to send it to PSA. Do it. Do it now!
@Cakes Well, I really only wanted to know about the margins initially. I never inspected it up close so never knew the ink pattern, or about the backs.
The style of printing is not correct, the colors on the front are off, the stock is off, the back’s color is off, the “Collect” tab is not there, the card edges are white instead of the same as the back and the item is an exact match for a known style of 1959 Bazooka Mickey Mantle reprint.
@FirstBeard said:
Buy it and send it to PSA. Please post the results. Meanwhile, this forum is not a resource to help scammers make better fakes. I challenge you to send it to PSA. Do it. Do it now!
I own it. It's going. And I totally get it... Thank you. Initially what had me worried is actually trusting anyone after seeing that there isn't adequate information out there to determine a real one except plastic coated graded stuff. And it really got me worried when people think there is only one back, when it's plain as day that there are more.
@CUTitORno said: @Cakes Well, I really only wanted to know about the margins initially. I never inspected it up close so never knew the ink pattern, or about the backs.
The style of printing is not correct, the colors on the front are off, the stock is off, the back’s color is off, the “Collect” tab is not there, the card edges are white instead of the same as the back and the item is an exact match for a known style of 1959 Bazooka Mickey Mantle reprint.
Thank you..
So these are all the same interior?
It can be hard to say without the pictures all being from the same sources and/or being in hand, though I’d lean towards a yes. The same items can look dramatically different if presented via photo or scan or even from one scanner to another scanner. To make the point, here’s an intentionally misleading photo I took* and a scan of the same exact card.
*This isn’t to defraud, mind you; the point of doing which was to point out that scans are good for card evaluation but eye appeal always matters for the collector. On a shelf or from distance, the flaws of an item are much less visible and the card looks pretty nice. Similar to the legitimate ’59 Bazooka Mantle I posted earlier…
Our eyes are not scanners, after all 😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
I appreciate that you are sending it in and all of the time and research you have dedicated to this. How are you submitting it and when do you expect it back?
@1959 said:
I would never buy an ungraded bazooka Mantle card. And you could probably get an SGC AUTH. for much less than 3000.
haha, yeah I said the same thing, I could buy a few of them for the money I'm about to dump.
So, do you own it or not? Yesterday, you talked about buying it. Today you said you owned it, so I figured you purchased it in the last 24 hours. And then this post, one minute later, you allude to all the money you are about to dump. Not that it really matters if you own it yet or not, but credibility goes a long way on this board.
Another factor is the lack of half tone printing pattern on the item in question. Authentic post war vintage items including the Bazookas were printed with the half tone process. Pretty sure it’s a reprint
Collecting Clemente master (#6) and basic PSA registry sets, Hank Aaron master and basic sets, Mantle oddball issues, 1970's mega decade HOFs, 1967 Topps pin ups, and high grade Topps Clemente and Aaron. Numerous transactions with over 100 board members.
@1959 said:
I would never buy an ungraded bazooka Mantle card. And you could probably get an SGC AUTH. for much less than 3000.
haha, yeah I said the same thing, I could buy a few of them for the money I'm about to dump.
So, do you own it or not? Yesterday, you talked about buying it. Today you said you owned it, so I figured you purchased it in the last 24 hours. And then this post, one minute later, you allude to all the money you are about to dump. Not that it really matters if you own it yet or not, but credibility goes a long way on this board.
I have video of removing it from the photo frame, and removing the glue, but there's a few curse words in it when I found out it cleaned right off so easily.
@cpettimd said:
Another factor is the lack of half tone printing pattern on the item in question. Authentic post war vintage items including the Bazookas were printed with the half tone process. Pretty sure it’s a reprint
Oh, well this guide on authenticating earliest cards is probably wrong then. hmmpfff
Reading comprehension issues? It clearly states reproductions of antique items ie prewar and early 1900s were done with plates lithography photo engraving; therefore the reprints of those items would be done in half tone.
Collecting Clemente master (#6) and basic PSA registry sets, Hank Aaron master and basic sets, Mantle oddball issues, 1970's mega decade HOFs, 1967 Topps pin ups, and high grade Topps Clemente and Aaron. Numerous transactions with over 100 board members.
@cpettimd said:
Reading comprehension issues? It clearly states reproductions of antique items ie prewar and early 1900s were done with plates lithography photo engraving; therefore the reprints of those items would be done in half tone.
Yes actually. I have conditions where it's hard to read. Most people just think to themselves... "damn he's ADHD A F."
Good guide though, and has references to back previous evidence.
It appears even on hi-resolution images that you can not differentiate half-tone from a fake even zoomed in all the way. Very few cards have the tones visible after uploaded file compression takes over.
I was clouded by reading somewhere it is common to have different cardboard types within a legit series which many bazooka box series have the same traits. and also the 50's is where you find cards with relief, lithograph, and halftone processes, sometimes multiple simultaneously. Which didn't fully takeover cards until the 70's but was transitioning during the 50's. (If my comprehension skills serve me well.) That gave me to many variables to check off, especially when an expert says there is only one kind of card stock.
But this card is FAKE, wish someone would've just said why in the beginning. Well it better be fake. fuuuuuudge... lol
Still want to see the ink and indentations, or fake printed indentations on another fake. The lines you can see on the 1200 resolution image are either where the edge of the box would've been and they had to fill in more space outside of that line, or it's a copy of a card with those lines. Which a lot of the full boxes have just outside the cut lines.
Dang, a lot of them graded 59's suuuure don't look like modern halftone technique.
Sorry for causing frustration, I find it better knowing the next "new guy" will maybe have a little more to go off of.
Bro why the heck did they have to glue it to a 1954 stock picture frame photo that would've never been seen????
AAaaaAAhhh
So, let us help you get your money back. Be honest....When did you buy it? What did you pay for it? Who did you buy it from? What was their story? How did you pay?
You really think I hide my thoughts very well after what you've just witnessed here?? I've been blatantly upfront and to the point. I've been 100 honest.
I buy storage lockers. I've bought about 30 in the last 6 months. This particular locker looked like this.
And I'm an absolute SUCKER when there is cards in the thumbnails. This particular locker, was rented by a guy like me... a storage locker buyer. In those bags are the good stuff from all his lockers he's been buying. Gold, antiques, old currency notes, Howdy Doody toys, Charlie Brown lunchboxes and thermos's... good old loot. puppets, you know. A TON OF S*#! from the 50's??? antique glass knick-knacks, nascar and baseball loot. What REALLY made me buy this was the tiny corner of the trunk you can see if you zoom zoom like you know I like to do.
Then I got there, and POW!
Trunks full of cards as I suspected. Only a few from the 50's though... And that mantle I tossed aside 3 times and it sat out in the trailer last month for a week or more cooking in the sun. It was not in the trunks, not that that makes any bit of difference now. Unless the guy I bought the unit from is this mysterious serial-card-gluer-guy who loves to glue vintage correct photo mats to perfectly fake vintage cards. He's somewhere in Chattanooga if that's the case and if you DO find him, I want a piece.
I was sitting across the street with the neighbor one day, looking at the trailer, and was saying, man I could have a fortune in there and not even know it. That night I started digging, and that card resurfaced, I went inside, and haven't been outside since. JK I have, but not really.
There's no money to get back, I made more in coins than I paid for the unit, besides the trip I have planned to ATL because I talked to some jack-wagon "Sports Card Experts" in town that sent me on a wild flippin goose egg chase. Hence my hesitation and unwillingness to listen to ANYONE without some flat out evidence.
@dontippet said:
So, let us help you get your money back. Be honest....When did you buy it? What did you pay for it? Who did you buy it from? What was their story? How did you pay?
May 25th. Purchase price $470 or $0 basically. StoragetreasuresDOTcom. Their story was some dude didn't pay for their locker, now you can own it. Paid by money order.
Actually, I saved THOUSANDS OF $$$$$ thanks to the experts here... eventually, or finally getting the advice I needed. They convinced me it's fake... so please don't suggest it's real, I've rn it through the garbage disposal after slicing it to pieces with my new and now pointless paper cutter.
I just bought up all the fakes on etsy and ebay, and we'll have a looksie when they come in.
Comments
Guess it would be the first time ever there was a misprint, never seen nothing like that before.
First time for everything I guess right...
You know, if you post another dozen close ups, maybe then you’ll convince folks it’s real.
Yes, there is a first time for everything. That's why I say, if you already own it, go ahead and send it in, not much of a financial risk. But if you are looking to purchase it for $3K, it certainly is a risk I wouldn't take and it appears to me that nobody that has seen this post would take the risk either.
Let's look at it from a different angle. If this was real and a lot of people on this board thought it was real, you would have multiple private messages from people interested in buying it from you. How many private messages have you received from people that are interested in purchasing this from you?
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
If you had asked for advice on a much older player, maybe an oddball card, I would maybe think you have a point. But when you are dealing with Mantle the guys here should be and are considered experts because they have shared so much knowledge and research on these boards over the last 20 years. Mantle is still the king of cards and his threads easily outnumber any other player by a long shot. For example look at all the Mantle stuff Wheaties posted. While that is impressive there are probably 15 to 20 other guys on this Forum who have just as much.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Thank you but I think adding “…if not more stuff, better stuff and who know much more, too...” makes that last sentence considerably more accurate.
I’ve learned quite a lot here, myself, and continue to do so.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
By the way?
The style of printing is not correct, the colors on the front are off, the stock is off, the back’s color is off, the “Collect” tab is not there, the card edges are white instead of the same as the back and the item is an exact match for a known style of 1959 Bazooka Mickey Mantle reprint.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
And there you have it. Wheaties has shared why it's not good. But it looks like the OP is vested in convincing himself it's legit. So enjoy the "Mantle".
I would never buy an ungraded bazooka Mantle card. And you could probably get an SGC AUTH. for much less than 3000.
Buy it and send it to PSA. Please post the results. Meanwhile, this forum is not a resource to help scammers make better fakes. I challenge you to send it to PSA. Do it. Do it now!
@Cakes Well, I really only wanted to know about the margins initially. I never inspected it up close so never knew the ink pattern, or about the backs.
Thank you..
So these are all the same interior?
I own it. It's going. And I totally get it... Thank you. Initially what had me worried is actually trusting anyone after seeing that there isn't adequate information out there to determine a real one except plastic coated graded stuff. And it really got me worried when people think there is only one back, when it's plain as day that there are more.
haha, yeah I said the same thing, I could buy a few of them for the money I'm about to dump.
It can be hard to say without the pictures all being from the same sources and/or being in hand, though I’d lean towards a yes. The same items can look dramatically different if presented via photo or scan or even from one scanner to another scanner. To make the point, here’s an intentionally misleading photo I took* and a scan of the same exact card.
*This isn’t to defraud, mind you; the point of doing which was to point out that scans are good for card evaluation but eye appeal always matters for the collector. On a shelf or from distance, the flaws of an item are much less visible and the card looks pretty nice. Similar to the legitimate ’59 Bazooka Mantle I posted earlier…
Our eyes are not scanners, after all 😉
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
These two boxes are different on the inside, and that fact is disrupting credibility on at least one of your observations.
Here's a few of the misprints I've found. Or misaligned
Shows the tab isn't connected with the alignment of the hashed lines.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I appreciate that you are sending it in and all of the time and research you have dedicated to this. How are you submitting it and when do you expect it back?
So, do you own it or not? Yesterday, you talked about buying it. Today you said you owned it, so I figured you purchased it in the last 24 hours. And then this post, one minute later, you allude to all the money you are about to dump. Not that it really matters if you own it yet or not, but credibility goes a long way on this board.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Another factor is the lack of half tone printing pattern on the item in question. Authentic post war vintage items including the Bazookas were printed with the half tone process. Pretty sure it’s a reprint
I have video of removing it from the photo frame, and removing the glue, but there's a few curse words in it when I found out it cleaned right off so easily.
Oh, well this guide on authenticating earliest cards is probably wrong then. hmmpfff
Reading comprehension issues? It clearly states reproductions of antique items ie prewar and early 1900s were done with plates lithography photo engraving; therefore the reprints of those items would be done in half tone.
Yes actually. I have conditions where it's hard to read. Most people just think to themselves... "damn he's ADHD A F."
Good guide though, and has references to back previous evidence.
What a thread!! I laughed. I cried. Would recommend. 9/10
It appears even on hi-resolution images that you can not differentiate half-tone from a fake even zoomed in all the way. Very few cards have the tones visible after uploaded file compression takes over.
I was clouded by reading somewhere it is common to have different cardboard types within a legit series which many bazooka box series have the same traits. and also the 50's is where you find cards with relief, lithograph, and halftone processes, sometimes multiple simultaneously. Which didn't fully takeover cards until the 70's but was transitioning during the 50's. (If my comprehension skills serve me well.) That gave me to many variables to check off, especially when an expert says there is only one kind of card stock.
But this card is FAKE, wish someone would've just said why in the beginning. Well it better be fake. fuuuuuudge... lol
Still want to see the ink and indentations, or fake printed indentations on another fake. The lines you can see on the 1200 resolution image are either where the edge of the box would've been and they had to fill in more space outside of that line, or it's a copy of a card with those lines. Which a lot of the full boxes have just outside the cut lines.
Dang, a lot of them graded 59's suuuure don't look like modern halftone technique.
Sorry for causing frustration, I find it better knowing the next "new guy" will maybe have a little more to go off of.
Bro why the heck did they have to glue it to a 1954 stock picture frame photo that would've never been seen????
AAaaaAAhhh
Throwback to when I thought I was rich.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/723857182
different name, ran out of upload bandwidth cause I'm poor. lol
When I read through this thread, this is what goes through my mind.
Yeah me too, they're feeling royal blue right about now.
So, let us help you get your money back. Be honest....When did you buy it? What did you pay for it? Who did you buy it from? What was their story? How did you pay?
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
You really think I hide my thoughts very well after what you've just witnessed here?? I've been blatantly upfront and to the point. I've been 100 honest.
I buy storage lockers. I've bought about 30 in the last 6 months. This particular locker looked like this.
And I'm an absolute SUCKER when there is cards in the thumbnails. This particular locker, was rented by a guy like me... a storage locker buyer. In those bags are the good stuff from all his lockers he's been buying. Gold, antiques, old currency notes, Howdy Doody toys, Charlie Brown lunchboxes and thermos's... good old loot. puppets, you know. A TON OF S*#! from the 50's??? antique glass knick-knacks, nascar and baseball loot. What REALLY made me buy this was the tiny corner of the trunk you can see if you zoom zoom like you know I like to do.
Then I got there, and POW!
Trunks full of cards as I suspected. Only a few from the 50's though... And that mantle I tossed aside 3 times and it sat out in the trailer last month for a week or more cooking in the sun. It was not in the trunks, not that that makes any bit of difference now. Unless the guy I bought the unit from is this mysterious serial-card-gluer-guy who loves to glue vintage correct photo mats to perfectly fake vintage cards. He's somewhere in Chattanooga if that's the case and if you DO find him, I want a piece.
I was sitting across the street with the neighbor one day, looking at the trailer, and was saying, man I could have a fortune in there and not even know it. That night I started digging, and that card resurfaced, I went inside, and haven't been outside since. JK I have, but not really.
There's no money to get back, I made more in coins than I paid for the unit, besides the trip I have planned to ATL because I talked to some jack-wagon "Sports Card Experts" in town that sent me on a wild flippin goose egg chase. Hence my hesitation and unwillingness to listen to ANYONE without some flat out evidence.
May 25th. Purchase price $470 or $0 basically. StoragetreasuresDOTcom. Their story was some dude didn't pay for their locker, now you can own it. Paid by money order.
If all you have in that card and all the others is 470 at the most then you did ok . If the mantle grades with PSA you did great. Best of luck.
Actually, I saved THOUSANDS OF $$$$$ thanks to the experts here... eventually, or finally getting the advice I needed. They convinced me it's fake... so please don't suggest it's real, I've rn it through the garbage disposal after slicing it to pieces with my new and now pointless paper cutter.
I just bought up all the fakes on etsy and ebay, and we'll have a looksie when they come in.
That is cool so you buy lockers and sounds like you did ok on balance. Glad the boards could help.