Lowest quality and image is correct,, also it's not my obverse ,,, reverse is a copy of mine. JMO oh I bet the weight is hmmm 9.70 grams,,, also the pit on the face is a dead giveaway for me
Thanks for sharing
Lol good luck look at the pit on the face are you all serious?
Doesn't match the leaf sprig and doesn't match the die breaks in the hair,,, and the reverse is a copy of mine..
Lol does it have Master Engraver marks,,, yes and the weight kind sir,,, oh and the crumbled edge with ejection marks.
Thanks
PS I don't think you'd see the file marks on your coin which NGC identified on mine.
Lol no edge and no weight,, nice hair on those coins by the way
Funny I thought you said these were just like mine,,, I'm not seeing it.
Thanks for sharing
I'm just going off the hair alone,, since the obverse is most important.
The differences are laughable on both sides,,, at least show us the edge so we can really laugh. JMO
Thanks
@ifthevamzarockin said: @burfle23 Does your counterfeit have "Anti-counterfeit protection and a crumbled edge?"
I don't know; I went back to the past posts and just keep seeing a racoon ...
No comparison even with my girlfriends cheap non flagship cell phone camera, the leaf sprig is incorrect along with the hair,,, also that's behind plastic,,,,, boom
Thanks
Yes cause I deserved to get blocked right? Hmmm 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why LMAO
I'd tell him his coins are not holding water,,,, tell him make us really laugh and show us the edge. LMAO oh lol the 9.70 weight guess also
LMAO, you mean disappointed but I'm not alone.
Trust me as you sling whatever it is you think you're slinging,,, your actions speak volumes on your character, same goes for all.
Only one who didn't disappoint,, well I think we know who that person is, well a few Woods, just_bob, Roger, Hoop, Lance, the rooster 🐓 he knows , these people did help at the right times
Vamz I've been told by the big dogs their opinions,,,, your opinion is like what's leftover on the hydrant.
Thanks all
@ifthevamzarockin said: @burfle23 Does your counterfeit have "Anti-counterfeit protection and a crumbled edge?"
I don't know; I went back to the past posts and just keep seeing a racoon ...
No comparison even with my girlfriends cheap non flagship cell phone camera, the leaf sprig is incorrect along with the hair,,, also that's behind plastic,,,,, boom
Thanks
You’re right that there’s no comparison. Of these two very bad fakes, the one on the left is a lot worse.
Lol Rex you know that's with everything turned on and behind plastic,,, wow I'm impressed.
I mean I thought I was gonna see the same fake edge,, same fake high quality with the toning,, same weight, since that's pretty much what he said in my other post.
I'm not against anyone,, but I'm no way shape or form is the coin or coins that the OP posted like mine.
@burfle23 said:
When I do presentations on counterfeits I review the top deceptive struck ones that often end up in TPG holders as genuine, the "intermediate" level of fakes that could make it in a holder and fool less experienced collectors, and then the lower level ones I call the "Chinese Cartoon Counterfeits"...
The Cartoon style appear to be made from dies created “free-hand” and do not match any known genuine variety; more like a caricature! These are the least deceptive and a basic knowledge of numismatics and a copy of the “Red Book” can smoke them out.
I went through images of several in my collection and include them here for Member's enjoyment.
Best, Jack.
But wait, if the dies don't match any known variety doesn't that prove they are genuine? After all, the fakers would copy not create!
This is a very important thread, and one to be taken seriously by all collectors. With the flood of fakes these days the collectors best defense is knowledge. Learn all you can about your area of interest and never stop studying. Thank you to burfle23 for his work in this area, and we are very fortunate to have a member of his stature here!
Correction,, to you all it was always an S8, so in your books they didn't create anything,,, but I'm my book the top right leaf isn't the same.
So then you bring out a low quality to go against mine,,,I like how you posted the weight & edge, I mean to really shut mine down.
So just for the record you all think China can make my coin,,, not these junk coins but my high quality example with the plain crumbled edge & ejection marks.
Still waiting 🤣 might have to wait a long time since I've already contacted the supposed manufacturer and was told they don't have it.
Oh it gets better let's talk about toning, good luck copying that
Yes I found the Etsy junk also, yes the obverse matches better than most,, the color and no Master Engraver marks are dead giveaways,,, this hair does match the closest. JMO
Would be epic if you would show us the edges and let us know the weights.
Etsy one I say weighs 10grams even,, the ones before 9.70 grams is my guess
Good find
Yes that's me on CCF here ya go new updated pics nothing turned on & no plastic. Again Cutler it's in Walter Breen's book,,,,, one set outside in the shade,,, the other me fighting lights inside.
Please,,, when you compare mine at least really compare them with the best pics I can give you all. Not saying my CCF pics were bad,, just I prefer closer.
Thanks
Ok, point out where in Breen it says coins struck without a collar can have ejection marks on the edge. I have the book so point out where it is. It is not possible.
Show us ejection marks on what Jack has posted for us ,,, I mean you all said it's fake therefore should be there in his coins no problem. JMO
Which as stated in Breen's books ejection marks/failure is a major error.
@lcutler said:
Ok, point out where in Breen it says coins struck without a collar can have ejection marks on the edge. I have the book so point out where it is. It is not possible.
Is this because it's not in Rogers book?
I mean impossible
Normally, the feeder mechanism released one blank at a time from the hopper, and guided it into the coining chamber, atop the lower die and within the open collar. Malfunctions can arise from feeding no blank at all (in which the dies clash against each other); feeding foreign matter with a blank; feeding a single blank improperly so that it rests partly or wholly outside the open collar (off centers, broadstrikes); or feeding more than one blank at once. Examples of all these classes are known.*
*Ejection: Two or More Planchets in Press.
When a newly struck coin fails to eject properly, sometimes it falls back partly or wholly into the coining chamber after a new blank has been fed in. This produces still different classes of mint errors, some as spectacular as the double and multiple strikes above.
Indents. If two planchets were fed into the coining chamber at striking but at least one was not properly centered, they produced an indent: the upper planchet shows a nearly normal obverse strike with an expanded area opposite the reverse indent (unstruck lens-shaped area whose two circular arc boundaries are the coin edge and the edge of the other coin), the lower coin shows an obverse indent with a nearly normal reverse impression (less expanded because it was restrained by the open collar). Some indents show obverse double striking; others were used as undertypes: see Multiple Errors below. Very few survive. (1802 variety 16, ANS.)*
Any failure of the feeding mechanism to eject the newly struck coin completely from the coining chamber will produce a mint error. Except for double profiles, these are major errors, some grotesque, all prized*
So yes please show us your ejection marks if you can.
And there is not a single word in that long post about ejection marks on the edge, not one! There is a lot of information about errors, but not one word of what you are claiming.If you see something you will have to point it out.
Ok so you deny ejection marks and the coinage chamber I get it,,,, nice edge pictures are we hiding something? PS the vine and bars part that was epic I mean those edge pics
Next
Google crumbled edge Breen,,, so now theirs two links in the book that could be linked "possibly"
Oh that refers to an SP 1793,,, hmmm 🤔 toning much?
Thanks all
Lol toning is now weathered,,, note on all examples provided are obvious copies of mine and I can prove it.
I can prove both sides of every coin which matches you've posted are copies of mine.
Nice try,,, oh let's see some edges don't be shy,,, along with your 9.70 grams or 10 grams copies you've provided.
Nothing about the crumbled edge,,, or the link to the SP,,,, instead toning is now weathered.
Thanks
burfle23
Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Lowest quality and image is correct,, also it's not my obverse ,,, reverse is a copy of mine. JMO oh I bet the weight is hmmm 9.70 grams,,, also the pit on the face is a dead giveaway for me
Thanks for sharing
@burfle23 Does your counterfeit have "Anti-counterfeit protection and a crumbled edge?"
Lol good luck look at the pit on the face are you all serious?
Doesn't match the leaf sprig and doesn't match the die breaks in the hair,,, and the reverse is a copy of mine..
Lol does it have Master Engraver marks,,, yes and the weight kind sir,,, oh and the crumbled edge with ejection marks.
Thanks
PS I don't think you'd see the file marks on your coin which NGC identified on mine.
.
he's good but he's not EVEN prepared for that level yet!
Also the other one hair
Thanks again for sharing
That, and a "COPY" stamp.
PS if he had the same edge I'm sure we'd be looking at it,,, or if the same weight,,,,I mean I think he'd share it right away
Thanks again
.
Lol no edge and no weight,, nice hair on those coins by the way
Funny I thought you said these were just like mine,,, I'm not seeing it.
Thanks for sharing
.
were you stationed in Da Nang?
I'm just going off the hair alone,, since the obverse is most important.
The differences are laughable on both sides,,, at least show us the edge so we can really laugh. JMO
Thanks
No comparison even with my girlfriends cheap non flagship cell phone camera, the leaf sprig is incorrect along with the hair,,, also that's behind plastic,,,,, boom
Thanks
.
Yes cause I deserved to get blocked right? Hmmm 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why LMAO
I'd tell him his coins are not holding water,,,, tell him make us really laugh and show us the edge. LMAO oh lol the 9.70 weight guess also
If this was an article of the dark side,,, I'd be disappointed big time. JMO
Thanks all
"I'd tell him his coins are not holding water,,,, tell him make us really laugh"
If you knew who he is and all the research he has published you would realize how stupid you sound.
Read my post before this one,,,I know who he is.
That's why this is extra disappointing. JMO
Thanks
"Read my post before this one"
Sorry, it looks like we posted at the same time, I didn't see it till now.
"I know who he is."
Well then you are even dumber than I thought you were and I already thought you were dumber than a goldfish.
LMAO, you mean disappointed but I'm not alone.
, these people did help at the right times 
Trust me as you sling whatever it is you think you're slinging,,, your actions speak volumes on your character, same goes for all.
Only one who didn't disappoint,, well I think we know who that person is, well a few Woods, just_bob, Roger, Hoop, Lance, the rooster 🐓 he knows
Vamz I've been told by the big dogs their opinions,,,, your opinion is like what's leftover on the hydrant.
Thanks all
You’re right that there’s no comparison. Of these two very bad fakes, the one on the left is a lot worse.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Lol Rex you know that's with everything turned on and behind plastic,,, wow I'm impressed.
I mean I thought I was gonna see the same fake edge,, same fake high quality with the toning,, same weight, since that's pretty much what he said in my other post.
I'm not against anyone,, but I'm no way shape or form is the coin or coins that the OP posted like mine.
Thanks all
But wait, if the dies don't match any known variety doesn't that prove they are genuine? After all, the fakers would copy not create!
This is a very important thread, and one to be taken seriously by all collectors. With the flood of fakes these days the collectors best defense is knowledge. Learn all you can about your area of interest and never stop studying. Thank you to burfle23 for his work in this area, and we are very fortunate to have a member of his stature here!
Correction,, to you all it was always an S8, so in your books they didn't create anything,,, but I'm my book the top right leaf isn't the same.
So then you bring out a low quality to go against mine,,,I like how you posted the weight & edge, I mean to really shut mine down.
So just for the record you all think China can make my coin,,, not these junk coins but my high quality example with the plain crumbled edge & ejection marks.
Still waiting 🤣 might have to wait a long time since I've already contacted the supposed manufacturer and was told they don't have it.
Oh it gets better let's talk about toning, good luck copying that
This post showed me alright 🤣
Thanks all
.
Yes I found the Etsy junk also, yes the obverse matches better than most,, the color and no Master Engraver marks are dead giveaways,,, this hair does match the closest. JMO
Would be epic if you would show us the edges and let us know the weights.
Etsy one I say weighs 10grams even,, the ones before 9.70 grams is my guess
.
Once again, ejection marks are proof that the “coin” was not minted at the US mint in 1793!
Good find
here ya go new updated pics nothing turned on & no plastic. Again Cutler it's in Walter Breen's book,,,,, one set outside in the shade,,, the other me fighting lights inside.
Yes that's me on CCF
.
Please,,, when you compare mine at least really compare them with the best pics I can give you all. Not saying my CCF pics were bad,, just I prefer closer.
Thanks
Ok, point out where in Breen it says coins struck without a collar can have ejection marks on the edge. I have the book so point out where it is. It is not possible.
Show us ejection marks on what Jack has posted for us
,,, I mean you all said it's fake therefore should be there in his coins no problem. JMO
Which as stated in Breen's books ejection marks/failure is a major error.
.
I have Breen’s book and it says nothing of the sort, you must have a “special” version.
Also they called it a coinage chamber.
Is this because it's not in Rogers book?
I mean impossible
.
I'm pretty sure it's in the oops part,,, I'll look it up
Here's the pages it is on just by googling ejection marks Breen
Thanks all
https://www.pcgs.com/books/earlycents/oops/5
*Feeding
Normally, the feeder mechanism released one blank at a time from the hopper, and guided it into the coining chamber, atop the lower die and within the open collar. Malfunctions can arise from feeding no blank at all (in which the dies clash against each other); feeding foreign matter with a blank; feeding a single blank improperly so that it rests partly or wholly outside the open collar (off centers, broadstrikes); or feeding more than one blank at once. Examples of all these classes are known.*
*Ejection: Two or More Planchets in Press.
When a newly struck coin fails to eject properly, sometimes it falls back partly or wholly into the coining chamber after a new blank has been fed in. This produces still different classes of mint errors, some as spectacular as the double and multiple strikes above.
*Ejection: Single Planchet
Any failure of the feeding mechanism to eject the newly struck coin completely from the coining chamber will produce a mint error. Except for double profiles, these are major errors, some grotesque, all prized*
So yes please show us your ejection marks if you can.
Thanks all have a great day
.
And there is not a single word in that long post about ejection marks on the edge, not one! There is a lot of information about errors, but not one word of what you are claiming.If you see something you will have to point it out.
.
Ok so you deny ejection marks and the coinage chamber I get it,,,, nice edge pictures are we hiding something? PS the vine and bars part that was epic
I mean those edge pics
Next
Google crumbled edge Breen,,, so now theirs two links in the book that could be linked "possibly"
Oh that refers to an SP 1793,,, hmmm 🤔 toning much?
Thanks all
Another link in your imaginary Breen book. Whatever, I’ve got real coins to study. Have a good one I’m done.
@SlickCoins example:
A weathered version available on ecrater for $16
https://www.ecrater.com/p/33753611/usa-1793-wreath-leaf-cent-copy?gps=1&id=74299256865&gclid=CjwKCAjwtcCVBhA0EiwAT1fY71VgO7MB5R0GNIARJgvxbtd7vSi3EVrcmX_IuS7oKKUbMY95U9yxERoCETMQAvD_BwE
Has the same "extra stuff" on the leaf
Here's an image from etsy, same thing
https://i.etsystatic.com/18970662/r/il/717eaa/2316953715/il_340x270.2316953715_60r9.jpg
Collector, occasional seller
.
And here it is available from the manufacturer
https://www.dashumiaocoin.com/1793-WREATH-LEAF-CENT-Copy-Coin-commemorative-coins-p16913.html
[Edit: seems to only work in Chrome]
Collector, occasional seller
Lol toning is now weathered,,, note on all examples provided are obvious copies of mine and I can prove it.
I can prove both sides of every coin which matches you've posted are copies of mine.
Nice try,,, oh let's see some edges don't be shy,,, along with your 9.70 grams or 10 grams copies you've provided.
Nothing about the crumbled edge,,, or the link to the SP,,,, instead toning is now weathered.
Thanks