Any help figuring the date with this worn Draped Bust Large Cent?

jesbroken

I cannot figure the date on this coin. It appears that the last figure has to be an 8, but the 2nd just does not look like a 7. Any help please. Here is different lighting if that helps. Thanks. Sorry if the pics aren't good enough.
Jim

WilliamF

looks to me like the last 3 digits of the date have rounded tops... that can only be 3 dates right? 1800-1802-1806 or also the 1800/79 overdate. It's just a little too far gone to be able to tell for sure...

privatecoin

I'd guess 1803

jedm

!803 has a flat top 3, so I'm thinking it's an '02.

jesbroken

No way the rounded top is a 3 , but I feel an 1800/79 is the coin as the left stem is shorter than the right and several of the Sheldon 1800/79 coins are similar. Just not comfortable with which one. Thanks.
Jim

jesbroken

@jedm said:
!803 has a flat top 3, so I'm thinking it's an '02.

The left top curves back too far for a 2 and I haven't found an 02 with left stem shorter than right, as of yet.
Jim

jesbroken

I did find an 02 with a shorter left stem, but pointing downward moreso. Also in the subject coin the last number appears to have something in the top of the last number. Hard one when worn this way. I do thank all for helping.
Jim

ricko

Looks like an 1802 to me.... Really need it in hand, under lighted magnification.... Cheers, RickO

lkenefic

Hmmm... interesting piece. I think it looks more like the overdate... 1800/79. The last digit looks more rounded on the top to me.

SlickCoins

I'll take a guess,,,,1808,,, which it can't be cause the reverse so my 2nd guess 1803
Thanks

WilliamF

@SlickCoins said:
I'll take a guess,,,,1808,,, which it can't be cause the reverse so my 2nd guess 1803
Thanks

You mean it cant be because of the obverse as well...
I don't know why I even bother ...

jesbroken

@SlickCoins said:
I'll take a guess,,,,1808,,, which it can't be cause the reverse so my 2nd guess 1803
Thanks

Another reason it couldn't be an 1808 was they never made any that I know of and I have never seen a round top 3.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

well i'm able to distinguish a lot of crazy stuff but this one is sending me away with my tail between my legs. (for now)

i even resorted to my die marriage database (the husak collection. all high-grade). looked at all the 1800 (last numeral too narrow on coin), 1802 (loop too narrow on coin), 1803 (no point), 1805 (for argument sake), 1806 (not really correct shape), 1808 (classic), 1809 (classic)

the second digit can't be a 7 simply because then the 3rd cannot be a 0, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8. can't be 99 because they are too different for last 2 digits from each other.

if you all haven't figured it out, i'll revist but after i cool down. that was a bit frustrating! no wonder i've seen some pros tell me they'd rather not do attribution for coins in too low/damaged grade unless a very good reason to suspect a high-dollar/rate date/marriage!

i think this will boil down to the reverse. pick the top 3-4 dates the last digit could be and start by process of elimination. i can't detect any major secondary pups from the rest of the coin and liberty is obliterated.

best guess for now is a 6 but i think they all nearly touch the bust.

coinfacts

jesbroken

Thanks, Lance. I've been going nuts over this one and have even used collection resources that I haven't used before and it's probably a lost cause. With the counterstrike, it wouldn't be of any value anyway, but I've lately gotten into these early cents and truly have enjoyed myself. They are truly likeable coins. I truly appreciate your help.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

@jesbroken said:
Thanks, Lance. I've been going nuts over this one and have even used collection resources that I haven't used before and it's probably a lost cause. With the counterstrike, it wouldn't be of any value anyway, but I've lately gotten into these early cents and truly have enjoyed myself. They are truly likeable coins. I truly appreciate your help.
Jim

yw

i can't seem to find my NC folder for a while now. i need to check my backup. i ALMOST considered a 7 (last digit) but the long part of the 7 doesn't shoot out at that wide of an angle away from the date. the NC images may not help as the obv dies used for all of them should have already been used with a non-sheldon obv but i need to find it anyway and those images are TOUGH to come by for a whole set.

there are at least a few members here i'd love to see chime in on this but don't recall all their monikers off the top of my head but if they are active and see this thread title, it should get their attention.

in the second image here, it almost looks like it could be a 7 or a long-shot 3 but unlikely. perhaps a few more images at different angles would help some wear and tear on us?

jesbroken

I only found one 3, S248, with a short left stem and it seems up a little higher. I just do not think the curvature is possible for the 3, but then there is no definitive proof. I would still think a 2 may be possible with damage preventing IDing it for sure. Getting tired so gonna take a break. Thanks again.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

@jesbroken said:
I only found one 3, S248, with a short left stem and it seems up a little higher. I just do not think the curvature is possible for the 3, but then there is no definitive proof. I would still think a 2 may be possible with damage preventing IDing it for sure. Getting tired so gonna take a break. Thanks again.
Jim

no probs. if you can provide a few different angle brighter images of just the date, i think we can widdle this down. once we get that, we can easily hammer down the rev.

jesbroken

One thing I noticed with the closeup I provided the last digit looks flatter, but in the photo of the complete coin it appears to be completely rounded. Hard to say, I will get more photos this evening and post them.
Jim

jesbroken

Here are some additional photos at several different angles.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

@jesbroken said:

.
as much as i appreciate the images, they can't be cropped small like that as we can't enlarge them without them pixelating beyond usable. gotta be the originals, probably a couple/several MB for each image. close-ups of the date would be optimal but original large images if you can't do close-ups.

jesbroken

Is this better, not a photographer nor a camera buff(obviously). When enlarged this photo(to me) now shows the 2nd digit as being flat and sloped from top right down to left and if so, could possibly be a 7 and this would then be a 1798. Just a thought.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

The_Dinosaur_Man

I'm leaning towards it being an 1802. The second, third, and fourth digits all have curved tops. The second and fourth digits are narrow and the third is wide. No date from the 1700s would qualify as they all have the flat top 7 for the second digit. I have provided some images of other yet specific dates below to help clarify:

First up, an 1800/79 specimen:

Note that the final digit in the overdate coin is much wider than yours, which should eliminate possibility that your coin is an 1800/79 right off the bat.

1802:

This one has the most similar tops to its digits as your coin. You can see that the second and fourth digit are narrow and the third digit is wide. You might have a different die variety, or the wear plays a bigger factor than we realize.

1803:

Just to rule it out, the 3 has a distinctly flat top.

1805:

Again, to rule it out. The top of the 5 does not match the final digit of your coin at all.

1806:

A better possibility, but still unlikely. The curve of the 6 leans strongly towards to the right and the curvature of the negative space within the loop does not match the negative space on your coin. The metal would have had to be manipulated to some degree to make it not look like a proper 6.

1807:

Ruling out this one too, the 7 has a obvious flat top. Even in the case of the overdate, which the pictured coin has, the flat top of the 7 is too prominent to be missing in any scenario.

I hope this helps!

TheRegulator

Spent some time looking at this tonight. I'm going with 1802 S-237.

Based on the obverse, the most likely date seemed like 1802, so I started there. Jump to the reverse, more detail and there's usually more information to go by.

Left stem points to gap between U and N. Check.

Leaf tip terminates at gap between TE of UNITED. Check.

PLD at center of curve. Check.

All leaf tips at STATES match. Check.

O of ONE low and leans right.

Droopy C of CENT and mushed into wreath leaves...

Hitting the literature... looks to have the large berries. The clincher is it looks to have the die crack coming off the wreath and passing through the N of UNITED. With that, I'm going with S-237.

And that's how I spent my Friday evening.

LanceNewmanOCC

@The_Dinosaur_Man said:

.
some good points.

i would say we are being stymied by an altered date but i don't see what it would be altered to that the value would increase.

oh, i just remembered. i need to find those NC images. already put away the backup. ugh. time to dig it out again.

realistically, it is most likely a 2, 6 or 0.

jesbroken

@TheRegulator said:
Spent some time looking at this tonight. I'm going with 1802 S-237.

Based on the obverse, the most likely date seemed like 1802, so I started there. Jump to the reverse, more detail and there's usually more information to go by.

Left stem points to gap between U and N. Check.

Leaf tip terminates at gap between TE of UNITED. Check.

PLD at center of curve. Check.

All leaf tips at STATES match. Check.

O of ONE low and leans right.

Droopy C of CENT and mushed into wreath leaves...

Hitting the literature... looks to have the large berries. The clincher is it looks to have the die crack coming off the wreath and passing through the N of UNITED. With that, I'm going with S-237.

And that's how I spent my Friday evening.

Great work, thank you for your time and help, as do I thank everyone. Are there many reverse dies with the die crack from the N of UNITED thru the wreath? I'll spend some time this weekend. I totally missed the die crack on this coin. Looks like I have a lot more studying to do. Thank you again, and I would not have picked a 2 from just the obverse that I have. Details are the key factors, as usual.
Jim

gumby1234

Looks like 1802 good detective work by @TheRegulator .

Walkerguy21D

Some fantastic sleuthing and photographer in this thread.
I'm in awe of the efforts by @The_Dinosaur_Man, @TheRegulator, and as always, @LanceNewmanOCC .
I tip my hat to you!

SlickCoins

Could it be a 1807 with an over date 1808?
Just saying cause they look like 8's to me,, just my opinion
Thanks
PS my first guess I didn't even really look at the obverse like you all pointed out,, just the reverse. Oh and I didn't check the 1807 either.

jesbroken

No 1808 Large Cent was made, just half cent.
Thanks to all the help you have given me. I learned a lot and mostly how not to overlook anything just because it's not written down. Great bunch of people on this forum and you are appreciated.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

@TheRegulator said:
Hitting the literature... looks to have the large berries. The clincher is it looks to have the die crack coming off the wreath and passing through the N of UNITED. With that, I'm going with S-237.

And that's how I spent my Friday evening.

.
i didn't even see your post. even though my post after yours is short and you'd think it'd only take 20-30 seconds to type it out and that would be correct but sometimes i have a post open for a while before submitting while looking up information, deciding what to say etc. usually i do re-scan threads but simply overlooked your lovely attribution efforts.

can you confirm that reverse wasn't used previously? it is the main reason i didn't use it to help here until i had the date pegged and also the reverses in this condition appear very similar. i did spend a little time looking only to be sent back to the obv. lol