What is up with this 1794 Flowing Hair Large Cent?
jesbroken
Posts: 10,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
I would normally just say damaged, but I have seen another recently for sale that was quite similar. Any ideas other than PMD? Not my coin and not trying to help seller.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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This would be a good question for SlickCoins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It appears to have had a very rough journey through history.
Was this the other one you saw for sale recently? (mine now)
I've seen probably a dozen of these in similar condition over the past few years and I've wondered the same thing... it definitely seems like it was done on purpose rather than just accidental damage, I'll be interested to see if anybody else has a theory about it
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
I saw a ‘93 wreath cent like this once, also.
Guessing it was done to make some sort of part or tool, as was done with other large cents.
PMD, someone made or attempted to make something else from the copper disk..
I'll take a wild guess
Looks like it was exposed to a fire or extreme heat & then had putty added to hide it,
Or it's fake then heat and putty.
Of course that is just the top coin.
Williams coin I'd need to see the other side and weight.
I need weight on both
Oh and let's take a look at the edge please
Thanks for sharing
PS edge and weight if you can
Annealing the coin and then planishing the edge will thicken the rim. Annealing copper makes it very soft and easy to form by coldworking. When raising silver holloware, it is important to planish and thicken the edge to prevent cracks. LIBERTY curves upward from the planishing.
I read somewhere that it was cheaper to deform copper half-cents and cents to make washers and spacers than to buy steel ones at the time... can't recall the source...
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Maybe made to level a table or chair? I've heard of that.
Yes exactly & since fireplaces were the norm back then, or a fire did happen that would explain what appears to be a black edge.
Yes some kind of washer in the boiler room.
All great answers on my opinion
See how the examples have like the same depression of whatever was pushing it in,, JMO
Looks like that one got its last rights a while ago, jmo on it 🤥
Here's a couple more. I guess someone was just bored. It just seemed odd to me that all the ones I ran across were 1794's.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't buy any of these even though I need one and 1794 is the only date I have seen this done on until the @WilliamF post's 1796.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I think the one @jesbroken posted top coin looks like it failed the purpose cause what looks to me has zinc in the coin and whatever pressure was behind it caused a blowout. JMO might've been some kind of cap maybe.
Thanks for sharing
So, as I thought these coins were 100% copper, so were did the zinc come from. Are you saying this coin was damaged upon creation at the mint or that it is a counterfeit? I'm confused. Thank you.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I just reviewed Warren Lapp’s extensive article on the Uses and Abuses of Large Cents, and none of the photos or descriptions match these with the rims turned into ~octagon appearing shapes.
Spooned
Hmm, sold for $112.50... I definitely wouldnt pay that much for it, the 1796 I got for just under $90 and it's in a lot better condition
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
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have you researched the sheldon number and die state? i cannot find it in my database. may be something, may not. i didn't look at the NCs.
I guess I'm still questioning the 100% copper in a true copper shortage & I bet the guys who used this coin for a purpose was thinking something along those lines also,,, other wise then yes that coin that looks like zinc rot is counterfeit.
It's only obvious it looks as if it was being used as some kind of steam cap,,, the blowout is in one direction.
Somebody was using these for something in my opinion
Thanks
The hole is a nail hole.
I also like your skill of being able to determine elemental analysis just by looking at pictures. Do you have XRF vision?
It's one thing to post ridiculous assertions about your own coin but please don't think other peoples threads. Someone had a legitimate question and doesn't need this nonsense.
If you actually read the post they jokingly asked for my opinion,,, well you know me, like I said I'd take a wild guess.
So it's a nail lol for what?
XRF vision to make an opinion on what looks like zinc rot,, hmmm 🤔 that would be sweet to have XRF vision.
Thanks
** The hole is a nail hole.**
Just PMD for one of the reasons above, or a multitude of other possibilities. Cheers, RickO
Yeah looks like really good color for being exposed to oxygen for a extended period of time,,,, surprising it has any green corrosion at all for being hung and exposed.
Yeah forget that it looks like it was under extreme pressure for that was the hammer when they pounded the nail,,,, forget that it looks like it was exposed to extreme heat and the black edge on the other like sample,,,, oh forget they share the same look.
Hmmm yes it's a luck coin
Thanks
I don't know where you came up with the idea that there was a copper shortage during this period. If anything it was exactly the opposite, there were literally tons of lightweight imitation copper coins and tokens in circulation. This caused a panic where the public lost faith in copper coins. The whole point of the mint producing full weight copper coins was to restore faith in copper coinage and help it circulate. There was no copper shortage.