@mavs2583 said:
Great Collections has become my #1 go to coin auction site. Lowest fees of the major companies (you should always figure out what the actual cost is with the fees before bidding anyway)...
If you figure the cost, the fees are irrelevant.
As a buyer, of course.
Yep.
@jmlanzaf said:
As a seller, you can't beat eBay...despite all the complaining about their "exorbitant fees".
Can't argue with that.
You guys are funny, better than comedy central. You 2 pick a date yet?
It would be better to simply understand the truth than to fight it and those who recognize it.
Do you want me to send you a dollar store calculator?
I also adjust my bid for the shipping. While not usually a huge issue for $1000 coin. It is significant in the $100 and under range.
If appropriate, also adjust for sales tax.
Including the sales tax, political items have a 34% over the hammer price for me. I have got to want an item very badly to buy it in a Heritage political items auction.
Almost as bad, when I bid, "IF I bid" on a coin in Heritage I just add 26% to my bid. When you add the 20% bp, then the 2.5% CC fee and then the outrageous shipping rates that's about what it will cost you................34% is crazy as is the 26%
I always pay 0% additional at Heritage because I do the math.
And as a dealer that workers for you because you are open to buying a much wider list of items. Collectors are drawn toward a much smaller list and some care less (within lose limits) about what they have to pay.
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere. They bought badly corroded pieces that would been tough to sell in other venues. The 25% buyers’ fee was hardly an afterthought.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I also adjust my bid for the shipping. While not usually a huge issue for $1000 coin. It is significant in the $100 and under range.
If appropriate, also adjust for sales tax.
Including the sales tax, political items have a 34% over the hammer price for me. I have got to want an item very badly to buy it in a Heritage political items auction.
Almost as bad, when I bid, "IF I bid" on a coin in Heritage I just add 26% to my bid. When you add the 20% bp, then the 2.5% CC fee and then the outrageous shipping rates that's about what it will cost you................34% is crazy as is the 26%
I always pay 0% additional at Heritage because I do the math.
And as a dealer that workers for you because you are open to buying a much wider list of items. Collectors are drawn toward a much smaller list and some care less (within lose limits) about what they have to pay.
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere. They bought badly corroded pieces that would been tough to sell in other venues. The 25% buyers’ fee was hardly an afterthought.
But the point is that they might week have hammered 25% higher without the premium. When people are willing to extend, there's not much that will discourage them.
@jmlanzaf said:
Do you want me to send you a dollar store calculator?
That will be $1.25 plus tax, $1.35 please...
I said dollar STORE not flat calculator. Lol
Besides, most of the "dollar stores" have now broken the buck on their inventories.
You raise another interesting question, implicitly. Would people prefer that the sales tax be hidden in the cost of the items in the store rather than spelled out? I think probably.
The IRS should consider a 100% employer tax. Everyone's pay will go down, but the citizenry will think they are paying no taxes and only the evil corporations are being taxed. I wonder why the pols haven't figured that out yet.
@BillJones said:
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere.
It would be silly to pay the prices in that sale when the same things could be had for 1/3 or 1/4 the price elsewhere. Does it really matter what other people are willing to pay if you can buy elsewhere for less?
@BillJones said:
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere.
It would be silly to pay the prices in that sale when the same things could be had for 1/3 or 1/4 the price elsewhere. Does it really matter what other people are willing to pay if you can buy elsewhere for less?
Provenance.
Equivalent items aren't actually available.
Have you ever noticed that everyone who outbid you is stupid?
@BillJones said:
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere.
It would be silly to pay the prices in that sale when the same things could be had for 1/3 or 1/4 the price elsewhere. Does it really matter what other people are willing to pay if you can buy elsewhere for less?
I bought two lots in that sale. One was an 1844 James Polk piece that had been on my want list for seven years. It provided the clearest support for Texas statehood among the few tokens that the Polk campaign issued. All James Polk tokens are very scarce to rare.
The second was an 1864 John Fremont ferrotype. The piece was the same one that is pictured in DeWitt/Sullivan. The obverse Ferrotype was not made well, but Fremont’s face is sharp. It’s only example of this variety that I have seen. A much nicer, more common Fremont ferrotype was in the sale, but it brought more that double the price I had seen previously.
The auctioneer spent 20 minutes before he began auction telling the bidders about how special all the lots were and how DeWitt “only collected the best.” Ahh no, not exactly. I have some pieces in my collection, which not exactly world class, that are much nicer than what he had, and I’m not a “gems only” collector.
I had an interest in another very rare lot, but it was badly corroded. It was the plate piece from the DeWitt book, but it appeared to be in worse shape now than it was in the late 1950s when the photo was taken. I was concerned that it could get worse, but I was willing to pay up to $1,000 including all the taxes and fees. It sold for over $4,000, and it was in the second day of the sale which was reserved for the lesser items.
BTW, virtually all of the lots were raw (uncertified) so when it came grading, you were on your own.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Earlier you said: "Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere."
Why not buy those items where the prices would be so much lower?
@BillJones said:
BTW, virtually all of the lots were raw (uncertified) so when it came grading, you were on your own.
This looks to be a fairly specialized collecting area and considering that you're a retired dealer, is doing your own grading a problem?
Collectors were drawn to this sale because the owner, who died 50 years ago, wrote the classic book on the series. He left the collection to the University of Hartford where it remained for about 50 years. Some thought it would never come to market. Finally the university sold it Heritage, and collectors got a chance to buy some rare and unusual items. The prices reflected that.
Some of the bidding was overly exuberant in my opinion. With some research and patience, one could buy the less than extremely rare items for less elsewhere. The highest prices were vintage political cartoons, which I don’t collect.
I have been interested in coins, tokens and medals for over 60 years. I know as much about grading as most of the people who do it for a living. Therefore I don’t have a problem with doing it on my own.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
Collectors were drawn to this sale because the owner, who died 50 years ago, wrote the classic book on the series. He left the collection to the University of Hartford where it remained for about 50 years. Some thought it would never come to market. Finally the university sold it Heritage, and collectors got a chance to buy some rare and unusual items. The prices reflected that.
That makes sense. I'm wondering though- why are you comparing prices in this sale with what items in other venues are bringing?
@BillJones said:
Some of the bidding was overly exuberant in my opinion. With some research and patience, one could buy the less than extremely rare items for less elsewhere. The highest prices were vintage political cartoons, which I don’t collect.
As you noted above, items purchased purchased from this collection are different from those purchased elsewhere. Is it surprising that pricing would be different, too?
@BillJones said:
I have been interested in coins, tokens and medals for over 60 years. I know as much about grading as most of the people who do it for a living. Therefore I don’t have a problem with doing it on my own.
You brought up the issue of being "on your own" for grading.
@thefinn said:
Now you know why so few coins are auctioned on eBay, rather than BIN.
I thought that was more because bozos wreck a large percentage of the auctions, for some weird reason I can't fathom. People who bid aggressively and then vanish when they win.
BIN permits sellers to vet their buyers, to some degree. Of course, the trouble is that auctions get far more attention.
Why don't you use your premium as a hidden reserve and advertise your auctions as 0% buyer's premium? It won't save anyone a nickel, but they'll be singing your praises for having 0% premiums. We, the buyers, prefer that sellers hide their margins so we can feel like we got over on you.
It would also benefit to advertise "free shipping". You can just hide the shipping charges in with the other hidden charges. Did you know that people actually think that Amazon ships free?
Your loyal customer,
Joe
Explain how they would do this?
It's a "$1000 coin", they simply have a hidden $200 reserve on the coin that is their cut. They can use a sliding scale with the sellers of they want to compensate them if the coin sells for $800.
There's probably other ways to do it. You don't care how they do it. You just don't want to know that Heritage got $200 on the $1000 coin.
They could also just increase the bid increments by 20%. Instead of $25 or $100 increments, they would be $30 and $120 increments. $25 (or $100) for the seller and $5 (or $20) to the House. You'll be blissfully unaware of the split because it won't be visible on your invoice.
I don't know if you know this, but Walmart hides their costs, including built in profits, into the price of a loaf of bread. It doesn't bother you if they take a 40% "buyer's premium" from you because it's hidden. But if they cut the price by 20% and then added 20% at the register you'd probably have a fit.
The only one who should care about the BP is the seller. And, if the seller is savvy, they might get half of the BP paid to them...or more for a true trophy. Ironically, if Heritage paid 120% of hammer to the buyer of an 1804 $, you'd be mad at them for cheating l charging you $1 million in BP even though they actually got ZERO!
I don't care about BP at all as a buyer because I can do the math and I don't mind having the fees visible instead of invisible.
So you mean only charge seller premia like eBay? Completely plausible, but I don't understand the convoluted method.
They DO only charge sellers... for anyone who does the math.
The "convoluted method" goes back to my tongue-in-cheek letter that @alaura22 took seriously.
Ah, yes, I was imprecise. I used "charge" in the "eBay charges sales tax" sense. I should have said "Only collect premia from sellers like eBay does."
@BillJones said:
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere.
It would be silly to pay the prices in that sale when the same things could be had for 1/3 or 1/4 the price elsewhere. Does it really matter what other people are willing to pay if you can buy elsewhere for less?
I bought two lots in that sale. One was an 1844 James Polk piece that had been on my want list for seven years. It provided the clearest support for Texas statehood among the few tokens that the Polk campaign issued. All James Polk tokens are very scarce to rare.
who knew that James Polk resembled Matthew McConaughey?
The resemblance is striking... but James Polk's schnozz is much more pronounced. Probably from Polking it into other peoples' business...
100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Comments
It would be better to simply understand the truth than to fight it and those who recognize it.
Do you want me to send you a dollar store calculator?
But if they cut the price by 20% and then added 20% at the register you'd probably have a fit.
Of course you know that doesn’t get you back to the starting point.
Smitten with DBLCs.
And as a dealer that workers for you because you are open to buying a much wider list of items. Collectors are drawn toward a much smaller list and some care less (within lose limits) about what they have to pay.
In the DeWitt political items sale, the bids were like they were paying with “Monopoly money.” Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere. They bought badly corroded pieces that would been tough to sell in other venues. The 25% buyers’ fee was hardly an afterthought.
They will bend on that $2500.00 level, just takes a phone call.
Correct
But the point is that they might week have hammered 25% higher without the premium. When people are willing to extend, there's not much that will discourage them.
That will be $1.25 plus tax, $1.35 please...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I said dollar STORE not flat calculator. Lol
Besides, most of the "dollar stores" have now broken the buck on their inventories.
You raise another interesting question, implicitly. Would people prefer that the sales tax be hidden in the cost of the items in the store rather than spelled out? I think probably.
The IRS should consider a 100% employer tax. Everyone's pay will go down, but the citizenry will think they are paying no taxes and only the evil corporations are being taxed. I wonder why the pols haven't figured that out yet.
It would be silly to pay the prices in that sale when the same things could be had for 1/3 or 1/4 the price elsewhere. Does it really matter what other people are willing to pay if you can buy elsewhere for less?
Have you ever noticed that everyone who outbid you is stupid?
If...
then...
the things that could be had elsewhere for less are not the same.
>
>
That's not true. The truth is everyone who outbids me has a personal vendetta against me and is only bidding expressly to hurt my feelings.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I bought two lots in that sale. One was an 1844 James Polk piece that had been on my want list for seven years. It provided the clearest support for Texas statehood among the few tokens that the Polk campaign issued. All James Polk tokens are very scarce to rare.
The second was an 1864 John Fremont ferrotype. The piece was the same one that is pictured in DeWitt/Sullivan. The obverse Ferrotype was not made well, but Fremont’s face is sharp. It’s only example of this variety that I have seen. A much nicer, more common Fremont ferrotype was in the sale, but it brought more that double the price I had seen previously.
The auctioneer spent 20 minutes before he began auction telling the bidders about how special all the lots were and how DeWitt “only collected the best.” Ahh no, not exactly. I have some pieces in my collection, which not exactly world class, that are much nicer than what he had, and I’m not a “gems only” collector.
I had an interest in another very rare lot, but it was badly corroded. It was the plate piece from the DeWitt book, but it appeared to be in worse shape now than it was in the late 1950s when the photo was taken. I was concerned that it could get worse, but I was willing to pay up to $1,000 including all the taxes and fees. It sold for over $4,000, and it was in the second day of the sale which was reserved for the lesser items.
BTW, virtually all of the lots were raw (uncertified) so when it came grading, you were on your own.
I have no problems with GC fees. And I like the customer service.
Earlier you said: "Collectors paid three or four times as much for material in that sale than they would have paid elsewhere."
Why not buy those items where the prices would be so much lower?
This looks to be a fairly specialized collecting area and considering that you're a retired dealer, is doing your own grading a problem?
Now you know why so few coins are auctioned on eBay, rather than BIN.
Collectors were drawn to this sale because the owner, who died 50 years ago, wrote the classic book on the series. He left the collection to the University of Hartford where it remained for about 50 years. Some thought it would never come to market. Finally the university sold it Heritage, and collectors got a chance to buy some rare and unusual items. The prices reflected that.
Some of the bidding was overly exuberant in my opinion. With some research and patience, one could buy the less than extremely rare items for less elsewhere. The highest prices were vintage political cartoons, which I don’t collect.
I have been interested in coins, tokens and medals for over 60 years. I know as much about grading as most of the people who do it for a living. Therefore I don’t have a problem with doing it on my own.
That makes sense. I'm wondering though- why are you comparing prices in this sale with what items in other venues are bringing?
As you noted above, items purchased purchased from this collection are different from those purchased elsewhere. Is it surprising that pricing would be different, too?
You brought up the issue of being "on your own" for grading.
I thought that was more because bozos wreck a large percentage of the auctions, for some weird reason I can't fathom. People who bid aggressively and then vanish when they win.
BIN permits sellers to vet their buyers, to some degree. Of course, the trouble is that auctions get far more attention.
Ah, yes, I was imprecise. I used "charge" in the "eBay charges sales tax" sense. I should have said "Only collect premia from sellers like eBay does."
who knew that James Polk resembled Matthew McConaughey?
The resemblance is striking... but James Polk's schnozz is much more pronounced. Probably from Polking it into other peoples' business...