Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Sales Tax On Coins & Bullion...

Coll3ctorColl3ctor Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭

I'm from Wisconsin and get charged 5.5% sales tax on in state purchases on coins/bullion. When I drive to Illinois and purchase coins/bullion they do not charge me sales tax.

So why is it that when I purchase coins/bullion on eBay from places in Illinois I gets charged Wisconsin 5.5% rate sales tax?

Comments

  • Options
    Coll3ctorColl3ctor Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭

    @DrewU said:
    Generally speaking it is due to the 2018 Wayfair SCOTUS decision on the concept of economic nexus. Because eBay bears responsibility for over $100k in annual sales into Wisconsin, they have an obligation to collect and remit sales tax in accordance with state and and local requirements.

    I run a small business and when I buy items online from the state of Missouri I pay no sales tax.

    Is this only an eBay thing?

  • Options
    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,482 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2022 7:43AM

    @Coll3ctor said:
    I'm from Wisconsin and get charged 5.5% sales tax on in state purchases on coins/bullion. When I drive to Illinois and purchase coins/bullion they do not charge me sales tax.

    So why is it that when I purchase coins/bullion on eBay from places in Illinois I gets charged Wisconsin 5.5% rate sales tax?

    In the strict sense of the law, after you have purchased something in Illinois and come back to Wisconsin, you are supposed to pay the sales tax to Wisconsin.

    I had an argument similar to this with a guy from Connecticut who as at a Massachusetts show. I quoted him on an item with the sales tax. He asked why he had to pay sales tax since he was from Connecticut. "Because this show is in Massachusetts and I have to charge the tax," was my answer. He passed on the deal because of that.

    It worked out okay, The item was a Morgan Dollar, and later the Greysheet bid went up on it, and I sold the piece for more.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Options
    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,507 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you have a tax ID I think you give them that number. It should work out in public as well I hope I'm right on this. Input is welome

  • Options
    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2022 7:57AM

    I am NOT an expert on WI taxes.
    Further, I have NOT thoroughly reviewed the laws in WI.

    That said, this looks like it might be a good place to start (i.e., section 11.78, sub-section 1g).

    If I understand 77.522 correctly, the bullion is sourced to a location in WI because you receive the product there.

    Edited to add: links are to WI laws.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coll3ctor said:

    @DrewU said:
    Generally speaking it is due to the 2018 Wayfair SCOTUS decision on the concept of economic nexus. Because eBay bears responsibility for over $100k in annual sales into Wisconsin, they have an obligation to collect and remit sales tax in accordance with state and and local requirements.

    I run a small business and when I buy items online from the state of Missouri I pay no sales tax.

    Is this only an eBay thing?

    It's an "internet marketplace" thing based on YOUR STATE'S sales tax laws. If you have an issue, bring it up with the state of Wisconsin.

  • Options
    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,908 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You may not have been charged in the past, but if WI has a sales tax on an item and you have it shipped in from out of state, you've always owed use tax on it, which is equivalent to sales tax. The recent changes that drove online venues to charge sales tax simply enforced the collection of said tax, where the vast majority of people never paid use tax. And if you buy something from someone who doesn't use a platform that charges the sales tax automatically, you still owe use tax.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • Options
    fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭

    No sales tax due on coins and bullion in Indiana. Yet

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny9434 said:
    If you have a tax ID I think you give them that number. It should work out in public as well I hope I'm right on this. Input is welome

    Yes. That works.

  • Options
    Coll3ctorColl3ctor Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:
    You may not have been charged in the past, but if WI has a sales tax on an item and you have it shipped in from out of state, you've always owed use tax on it, which is equivalent to sales tax. The recent changes that drove online venues to charge sales tax simply enforced the collection of said tax, where the vast majority of people never paid use tax. And if you buy something from someone who doesn't use a platform that charges the sales tax automatically, you still owe use tax.

    Dis this also apply to out of country purchases?

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2022 9:20AM

    @Coll3ctor said:

    @airplanenut said:
    You may not have been charged in the past, but if WI has a sales tax on an item and you have it shipped in from out of state, you've always owed use tax on it, which is equivalent to sales tax. The recent changes that drove online venues to charge sales tax simply enforced the collection of said tax, where the vast majority of people never paid use tax. And if you buy something from someone who doesn't use a platform that charges the sales tax automatically, you still owe use tax.

    Dis this also apply to out of country purchases?

    That depends on the rules of the state of Wisconsin. Probably, yes.

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coll3ctor said:

    @airplanenut said:
    You may not have been charged in the past, but if WI has a sales tax on an item and you have it shipped in from out of state, you've always owed use tax on it, which is equivalent to sales tax. The recent changes that drove online venues to charge sales tax simply enforced the collection of said tax, where the vast majority of people never paid use tax. And if you buy something from someone who doesn't use a platform that charges the sales tax automatically, you still owe use tax.

    Dis this also apply to out of country purchases?

    Here, read this:

    https://www.revenue.wi.gov/Pages/FAQS/ise-remote-sellers.aspx

  • Options
    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,908 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coll3ctor said:

    @airplanenut said:
    You may not have been charged in the past, but if WI has a sales tax on an item and you have it shipped in from out of state, you've always owed use tax on it, which is equivalent to sales tax. The recent changes that drove online venues to charge sales tax simply enforced the collection of said tax, where the vast majority of people never paid use tax. And if you buy something from someone who doesn't use a platform that charges the sales tax automatically, you still owe use tax.

    Dis this also apply to out of country purchases?

    Typically use tax applies to anything for which you didn't pay the full home-state sales tax. As an example, I live in WA, which has sales tax (not on coins, so let's pretend we're buying something else, like a camera). Oregon does not. If I go to Oregon and buy a camera, I pay no sales tax. When I come back to WA, I owe use tax at the full WA rate. Now, if I go to a different state that does have sales tax, if I pay at least as much as WA's rate, I should owe nothing, but if I pay less than WA's rate, I could owe the difference to WA. This is where things get more complicated, because different states can handle this instance differently, and there are also differences depending on whether you bought an item and brought it right back to your home state versus using it where you bought it, and then bringing it back.

    But in short, if you didn't pay any sales tax at all, you very likely owe use tax.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • Options
    nk1nknk1nk Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2022 3:06PM

    eBay sales tax on bullion and coins is a train wreck!! I live in Utah and there is no required sales tax but eBay charges me sales tax on every purchase I make and if I want it back I have to go through endless hoops and BS to get it, I’ve let several purchases accumulate and went through the song and dance twice. I am currently owed over $100 but honestly don’t even want to bother with it. I think eBay errors on the side of caution and hopes nobody says anything.

  • Options
    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @nk1nk said:
    eBay sales tax on bullion and coins is a train wreck!! I live in Utah and there is no required sales tax but eBay charges me sales tax on every purchase I make and if I want it back I have to go through endless hoops and BS to get it, I’ve let several purchases accumulate and went through the song and dance twice. I am currently owed over $100 but honestly don’t even want to bother with it. I think eBay errors on the side of caution and hopes nobody says anything.

    Same here, exactly,,,,,,,
    I found the answer, don't buy anything on Ebay! My concierge member is useless. Now I just look there and hopefully the seller has a website. No more Ebay for me except to look............

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Sales tax is collected for the buyers address not the sellers address. ;)

    That's not -strictly- true.

    For IN-PERSON sales, the location of the sale (and the state laws regarding what is/is not taxable and the rates) apply.

    • Dealers at a show can be required to have a sales tax permit, collect, and remit taxes based on the show location, regardless of the dealer's home location.

    For Telephonic/Mail Order sales (including Internet), the buyer's location (and the buyer's state laws regarding what is/is not taxable and the rates) apply. This was settled in the Wayfair decision.

    As with everything tax, that's just the surface of the onion...

    If you do an IN-PERSON purchase in another jurisdiction, the buyer is required to pay USE TAX equivalent to the sales tax when the item(s) are brought into the home jurisdiction, depending on the state laws regarding what is/is not taxable and the rates. There is typically a reduction for any sales tax already paid.

    • If you buy something taxable in a 5% state and bring it home to a 4% state, no tax is due (you already paid more than the 4% rate).
    • If you buy something taxable in a 5% state and bring it home to a 6% state, you owe the 1% difference as use tax.
    • If you buy something non-taxable in the physical location and bring it home to a 5% state where it IS taxable, you owe the 5% use tax.

    EXCEPT: There are several state tax treaties where the tax rate of the higher state is collected as part of the sale in the lower tax state based on the buyer's residence. NY/NJ used to do this (not sure if they still do).

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    Sales tax is collected for the buyers address not the sellers address. ;)

    That's not -strictly- true.

    For IN-PERSON sales, the location of the sale (and the state laws regarding what is/is not taxable and the rates) apply.

    • Dealers at a show can be required to have a sales tax permit, collect, and remit taxes based on the show location, regardless of the dealer's home location.

    For Telephonic/Mail Order sales (including Internet), the buyer's location (and the buyer's state laws regarding what is/is not taxable and the rates) apply. This was settled in the Wayfair decision.

    As with everything tax, that's just the surface of the onion...

    If you do an IN-PERSON purchase in another jurisdiction, the buyer is required to pay USE TAX equivalent to the sales tax when the item(s) are brought into the home jurisdiction, depending on the state laws regarding what is/is not taxable and the rates. There is typically a reduction for any sales tax already paid.

    • If you buy something taxable in a 5% state and bring it home to a 4% state, no tax is due (you already paid more than the 4% rate).
    • If you buy something taxable in a 5% state and bring it home to a 6% state, you owe the 1% difference as use tax.
    • If you buy something non-taxable in the physical location and bring it home to a 5% state where it IS taxable, you owe the 5% use tax.

    EXCEPT: There are several state tax treaties where the tax rate of the higher state is collected as part of the sale in the lower tax state based on the buyer's residence. NY/NJ used to do this (not sure if they still do).

    We're talking eBay...

  • Options
    mavs2583mavs2583 Posts: 200 ✭✭✭✭

    The sales tax has pretty much eliminated by ebay purchases. Everything gets taxed by default even when it shouldn't.

  • Options
    derrybderryb Posts: 36,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ebay sales tax levels the playing field between ebay sellers and retailers. Ebay is no longer a hub of garage sales. This is why the on line tax law change was supported by retailers.

    Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Ebay sales tax levels the playing field between ebay sellers and retailers. Ebay is no longer a hub of garage sales. This is why the on line tax law change was supported by retailers.

    The game was over when Amazon changed sides. They had established nexus in so many states, they couldn't avoid the sales tax anymore so they stopped fighting it and started supporting the sales tax.

    Frankly, there is an element of fairness to it. Mom and pop B&M's were all but wiped out by internet sales. And then the remaining big box stores were getting hammered by the internet. We were in danger of having no local stores left.

    The Wayfair ruling has actually increased my sales substantially in NY.

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Ebay sales tax levels the playing field between ebay sellers and retailers. Ebay is no longer a hub of garage sales. This is why the on line tax law change was supported by retailers.

    It also helped to clarify a horribly complex situation. The Wayfair decision made it clear to the states what law(s) they needed to enact. There are now a couple of companies that make sales-tax-as-a-service software. You feed it the goods & address and it kicks back a rate.

    eBay's problem is they don't force sellers to properly classify goods. If you list a collectible coin in the bullion category, the software says, "oh, bullion, in Xy: non-tax". If you list bullion in the collectible coin category, the software says "oh, coin in Xy: tax 6%". Where eBay seems especially stupid is if you list in multiple categories that have different tax characteristics in some locations.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:

    @derryb said:
    Ebay sales tax levels the playing field between ebay sellers and retailers. Ebay is no longer a hub of garage sales. This is why the on line tax law change was supported by retailers.

    It also helped to clarify a horribly complex situation. The Wayfair decision made it clear to the states what law(s) they needed to enact. There are now a couple of companies that make sales-tax-as-a-service software. You feed it the goods & address and it kicks back a rate.

    eBay's problem is they don't force sellers to properly classify goods. If you list a collectible coin in the bullion category, the software says, "oh, bullion, in Xy: non-tax". If you list bullion in the collectible coin category, the software says "oh, coin in Xy: tax 6%". Where eBay seems especially stupid is if you list in multiple categories that have different tax characteristics in some locations.

    It's a crazy mess that is hard for ebay to control. If you are Walmart, you can accurately control the listing characteristics. If your eBay you are at the mercy of your users and your categories may not line up with the designations of the hundreds of taxing jurisdictions.

    [Not that ebay didn't have other tax implementation problems. ]

    People have always exploited this freedom. When ebay bucks or gift cards had bullion exemptions, sellers just listed under coins. People list coins under bullion to take advantage of the lower FVF. I've actually had people ask me to move something into a different category to bypass category restrictions. Once, I was even asked to put a numismatic item in the jewelry category because they had done kind of coupon or gift card.

  • Options
    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:

    @derryb said:
    Ebay sales tax levels the playing field between ebay sellers and retailers. Ebay is no longer a hub of garage sales. This is why the on line tax law change was supported by retailers.

    It also helped to clarify a horribly complex situation. The Wayfair decision made it clear to the states what law(s) they needed to enact. There are now a couple of companies that make sales-tax-as-a-service software. You feed it the goods & address and it kicks back a rate.

    eBay's problem is they don't force sellers to properly classify goods. If you list a collectible coin in the bullion category, the software says, "oh, bullion, in Xy: non-tax". If you list bullion in the collectible coin category, the software says "oh, coin in Xy: tax 6%". Where eBay seems especially stupid is if you list in multiple categories that have different tax characteristics in some locations.

    Wait. Where do I find the SKU on my dateless Buffalo?

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @daltex the US Mint bar code is on the rim, but you need Nic-A-Date to show it.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    It's a crazy mess that is hard for ebay to control. If you are Walmart, you can accurately control the listing characteristics. If your eBay you are at the mercy of your users and your categories may not line up with the designations of the hundreds of taxing jurisdictions.

    Sprawl-Mart and Amazonia have the same problem in their marketplace sections. It's just smaller volumes so fewer total complaints.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    @daltex the US Mint bar code is on the rim, but you need Nic-A-Date to show it.

    You can see it if you just,Zoom in with your digital microscope. It's right next to the portrait of George Washington having lunch with Jesus.

  • Options
    Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I bid on something at Heritage and have it shipped to Ohio, since Ohio doesnt have sales tax on gold or silver there is no tax. But even if I bid on Heritage items and tell them to ship to my other address in Maine they charge me sales tax. It has to do with the ship to address.

    With eBay it doesnt matter those idiots just charge tax on everything. So I have been keeping track of the sales tax eBay charges me on my coins, gold or silver, and will file it with my taxes next year for a return. They are idiots at ebay!

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Herb_t - good luck with that.

    Let me save you a lot of problems. Income taxes and Sales taxes are separate returns.

    In most jurisdictions, to file for a refund on improperly collected sales taxes, the request must come from the party that improperly remitted them. In order for them to be refunded to a third party requires an affidavit from the remitter that they won't file for a refund.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file