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1853 Half Cent - Size

Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭
edited May 31, 2022 4:08PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Hello To All ... Any thoughts for this 1853 Half Cent? The coin's diameter is smaller than a regular Half Cent, the thicknes is larger, and the weight is 5.8 grams. The second image shows the coin placed on top of an 1835 Half Cent. As always any assistance is appreciated.

Comments

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Sorry. the subject title should be Half Cent and not Cent.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2022 4:10PM

    My Red Book says the 1853 diameter should be 23mm,
    and the diameter of the other 2 should be 23.5mm.
    Weight should be 5.44g for each, with some tolerance for under/over.

    P.S. You should be able to edit the title.

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Thanks ... I just did.

  • yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2022 4:20PM

    Is there a raised rim edge on the reverse?
    If so, that could be post mint damage that reduced the diameter more than normal.
    (Or maybe a collar that was smaller than normal?)

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Looks the same as an uncirculated 1853 HC; spacing of Rev letters to edge seem to be the same.

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    The coin appears to have a Rolled-thick planchet which would cause abnormal thickness and added weight. Any thoughts? ..... Thanks

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Or, perhaps the coin was struck on the wrong planchet. In any event, the coin will be graded. Below image is for information purposes only. Thanks for the lead from yosclimber.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice pictures. Let us know what your submittal results are when you can. I have not studied these half cents at all, so will be interested in the results. Cheers, RickO

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Will do ... Thanks for the response.

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    For clarification ... I am not the owner of the 1945 Cent that I posted. Thanks

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It could be a fake....but it looks genuine to me. Or a well executed fake.
    Tooled/whizzed/polished, but probably genuine.
    Calling @burfle23 - our resident expert on well executed fake copper.

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  • JesseKraftJesseKraft Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Braided Hair half cents are generally narrower and thicker. I just ran some test measurements in the ANS vault and came up with an average diameter of 23.65mm for Draped Bust and Capped Bust half cents, and 22.7 for the Braided Hair type. Average thicknesses of 1.5 mm for the former and 1.85 for the latter. Weights are the same, however (with tolerances, as noted).

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  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 1, 2022 7:26AM

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    It could be a fake....but it looks genuine to me. Or a well executed fake.
    Tooled/whizzed/polished, but probably genuine.
    Calling @burfle23 - our resident expert on well executed fake copper.

    Not one of the deceptive counterfeit varieties documented; there are Russian fakes out there but the OP's coin lines up to 1853 C1 OK. I would like to see clearer images of the reverse as the posted one is pretty blurry to at least my eyes B) ...

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    It could be a fake....but it looks genuine to me. Or a well executed fake.
    Tooled/whizzed/polished, but probably genuine.
    Calling @burfle23 - our resident expert on well executed fake copper.

    Not one of the deceptive counterfeit varieties documented; there are Russian fakes out there but the OP's coin lines up to 1853 C1 OK. I would like to see clearer images of the reverse as the posted one is pretty blurry to at least my eyes B) ...

    Thanks, I was initially thinking possible Bay Area Counterfeit, but then when I checked it's the 1853 Large Cent, not half cent, that was documented....the half cent fake I think is the 1835.

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ken1796 said:
    Or, perhaps the coin was struck on the wrong planchet. In any event, the coin will be graded. Below image is for information purposes only. Thanks for the lead from yosclimber.

    Probably impossible. In 1853, for whom was the Mint striking large coppers other than the US?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    It could be a fake....but it looks genuine to me. Or a well executed fake.
    Tooled/whizzed/polished, but probably genuine.
    Calling @burfle23 - our resident expert on well executed fake copper.

    Not one of the deceptive counterfeit varieties documented; there are Russian fakes out there but the OP's coin lines up to 1853 C1 OK. I would like to see clearer images of the reverse as the posted one is pretty blurry to at least my eyes B) ...

    A counterfeit can be made from dies made from an actual coin.

    I'd like to see pictures of the third side.

    There's something off about that coin.

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Additional pictures below - Thanks.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Electrotype?

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was trying to see the die scratch through the 1st "T" of STATES like this one:

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    No, I don't see that die scratch. However, I do see a die scratch from "A" to denticles. See below image. Also, my scope is down which clearly would help with images for markings.

  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Thanks for the responses.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ken1796 said:
    Thanks for the responses.

    .
    do you have the original, unedited images of the obv/rev you'd be willing to add to one of these posts? unedited, so that we can enlarge them w/o pixelation.

    also, a side note, i just made a post about scanners and high-res settings. it may be worth a bit of your time to get a user manual and/or youtube video for the settings so you can go as high as you can, if you desire. hope it helps. :)

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  • Ken1796Ken1796 Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Below is an original at 600dpi:

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2022 6:34PM

    I'm interested to see what you all come up with good job all :)
    Thanks
    PS to me the vines and berries are questionable compared to graded,, it looks like a copy,,,I have to check the E and R on the obverse,,, keyword looks super fake and I'm not a pro just giving my opinion.


  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭

    Sorry,,, Cohen 1 :)

  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Early copper is my main collecting interest (doesnt make me an expert tho ;) ) and that looks like a very well done counterfeit to me...
    There are a couple possible tells; the raised collar is something that I see on most counterfeit large cents.
    Also the grainy surfaces and weak strike, if its genuine, its high AU at least and the denticles and lettering seems too 'mushy' compared to the relatively little wear on the rest of the coin. The color is off as well...
    Those are a just a couple things I've come to associate with fakes, I hope I'm wrong about yours though and it comes back genuine :)

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  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2022 7:38PM

    Yeah but you know tons and in my book that kinda makes you an Early American Copper expert :) or at least a Pro and I've said it before all you guys and gals are pros in my book :) I'm hoping I'm wrong also 🤞
    Thanks

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2022 7:59PM

    What gives things away for me is super thin vines and highly detailed berries, oh and the beads in her hair.
    Also on all my pictures I'm on 64mb cell phone camera which I broke the lens, which means the color doesn't represent right on mine, I'll have to use another cell phone with HDR for improved color and cameo,,, yes color means a bunch & mine and maybe hopefully his are being misrepresented 🤞👍 by lack of camera quality. Sorry "high dynamic range" HDR
    Thanks

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me the "best" images of this are not good enough to condemn it! The edge views don't show anything as well. If it is a struck counterfeit there will be others out there with the same "tells".

  • SlickCoinsSlickCoins Posts: 658 ✭✭✭

    Good morning all/day 😁
    Yes I agree totally worth what you say,, about the pics and the others being out there with the same "tells".
    I'll keep an eye out for another like specimen,,, yeah pics & color are huge.
    I did kinda jump to condemn it from the pics provided & I'm hoping I'm wrong.
    Awesome thread all and thanks for letting me be a part of it :)

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