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Stupid question, but, is it possible to have....
MWallace
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
....a coin graded MS70+ or PR70+? How about MS70* or PF*? If a 70 graded coin has beautiful toning, would it merit a + or *?
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MWallace
Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
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I hadn’t seen any for a long time but recently there have been some MS 70 stars from NGC. See the thread below:
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/is-this-the-first-ms-70-star-from-ngc.354465/
No to 70+. If the highest grade on the scale is 70, if you’re going to ignore that and go to 70+, why not 71 or higher? !!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I believe I’ve seen NGC holders with a grade of 70*
I totally understand what you're saying. That's why I think it's probably a stupid question. However, all 65's aren't equal, so are you saying all 70's ARE equal?
No, I’m not saying that. The major grading companies don’t require absolute/technical perfection for the grade of 70.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
MS70 is a perfect coin. One perfect coin can't be more perfect than another perfect coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I believe the superlatives top out at 69. So you can have a plus up to 68+. That’s what memory tells me at least. Stars are eye appeal so as long as a 70 has amazing eye appeal, I don’t see why it can’t receive a star at 70.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
it's the scale they go by, no ms71 so don't try to rock the boat. LOL you will accept the scale they tell you to and accept it.
THey did when there was only one and I was in charge of it, and we DID issue a few 70's.
TD
70 is perfect.
So a 70* is Top Quality Perfect?
Per the coin mentioned...
First thing my eyes were drawn to was the small black dot in Libertys skirt.
If I was in the market for a MS70 coin this would not be a consideration for me.
PCGS and NGC do not require that a coin be perfect in order to award it a grade of 70.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The original definition of a 70 was a perfect coin and this grade was not originally used because no coin is perfect on a microscopic level. The grading services changed the definition of the 70 grade to no defects visible under 5X magnification. This was done for marketing purposes.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Yes, I know that, which is why I posted what I did in reply to your comment “MS70 is a perfect coin”.
And based on what you refer to as “marketing purposes”, a 70 need not be perfect.
One definition provided by PCGS: https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade70
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What? There's no ms71? Have I been banned?
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Most employees at ngc and pcgs can't count above 70. that's why. LOL, just a joke. Don't hate.
I've never seen a coin graded 70+, however, there are 70 graded coins where one can look better than the other. And in some cases, even some 69's can look better than some 70s.
CoinBlog.net
But there still aren't any 71 s, like saying i saw a ef 6 tornado.
This is one example I’ve seen, but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen several others over the years. They are very hard to find.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/modern-bullion-coins/us-bullion-coins/2009-20-one-ounce-gold-ultra-high-relief-twenty-dollar-ms70-ngc-pcgs-407404-/a/1331-3239.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Why not 100 point scale?
I wonder if the "*" is a designation like "Proof-Like"? PCGS does this (I have 1 such specimen - MS70PL).
ms70star, that's an atta boy for getting an ms70, duh.
The * designation on an NGC slab denotes that the coin has a special quality, but doesn’t quite meet the criteria for the full designation (or grade bump up) on the holder. For example, a proof Franklin that has a DCAM obverse, but a regular proof non cameo reverse. This coin would be graded something like a pf67*.
In the case with this 2009 UHR coin, my guess is that it just missed the PL designation on both sides, so it was given a star because of its beauty. Because NGC certainly could have graded it ms70PL* (or ms70DPL*) but chose not to.
This 2009 coin, imo, would actually be inferior to an ms70PL coin, but instead sold for ~$14,000, versus the ~$3,000 value of a normal ms70PL version.
I’ve never seen this coin in hand, so I may be missing a key aspect to it.
Great post by putting that link in there. I have never seen a 70* before and would have thought no to anything better than 70.
Pocket Change Inspector
The NGC “Star” is awarded for exceptional eye-appeal. It’s not used to indicate that the coin is “better” in terms of quality/grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
65 is different because you can compare to 64, other 65's and 66. 70 is the top of the scale. I agree not all 70's are equal but at the same time agree with @MFeld as 70 is the top of the scale. Going beyond that with + starts to change the boundaries.
Still, with the star ,the pic above in this thread is the first I've seen on a 70. Maybe I just never noticed before but then moderns are not what I collect. Again what makes this forum so darn good.
Pocket Change Inspector
This.
Explanation from NGC website.
Edited to add:
Source
As I understand the * designation, it denotes 'eye appeal', not grade - or at least it did originally. The current Sheldon scale goes to 70, a technically perfect coin with no detracting mint or handling issues. As @MFeld (and the PCGS definition) said, there could be very minor, non eye appeal affecting issues and still achieve that grade. There have been suggestions to expand the grading scale over the years - such as with decimals or a 100 point scale. This is just splitting the hair even finer. There may be less debate if there were only five grades - poor, impaired, good, better, best.
However, no matter what scale is used, there will always be complaints or disagreements, until a solid, measurable, repeatable set of standards is developed and implemented. Until then, we live with opinions - and trained, expert opinions. 
Cheers, RickO
I've seen quite a few MS70-
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar