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Received some grades on MS Clad coins - (possibly of interest to Cladking and Wondercoin)

SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

Today grades posted on a February submission of 13 modern clad coins. This submission was an experiment to see how my grade opinions on these coins (they all have positive eye appeal) compared to the opinion of PCGS.

The coins and the PCGS grades assigned to them are:

1969 25C MS66
1969 25C MS66
1983-P 25C MS66

1972 $1 Type 1 MS64
1972-D $1 MS64
1973 $1 MS63
1974 $1 MS64
1974-D $1 MS65
1977 $1 MS65
1977-D $1 MS65
1978 $1 MS64
1978-D $1 MS65

1980-P SBA$1 MS64

I did well with the three clad quarters. :)

For the Clad Ikes and for the SBA dollars I did not do well at all.

True Views will eventually be available and I will post them to this thread.

Comments

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2022 4:51PM

    I looked up my personal grades for these 13 coins.

    They are:

    1969 P QUARTER MS66
    1969 P QUARTER MS65
    1983 D QUARTER MS66

    My grades matched the PCGS grade on 2 quarters and was 1 point low on the third quarter.

    1972 P TYPE 1 DOLLAR MS64

    1972 D DOLLAR MS64
    1973 P DOLLAR MS65
    1974 P DOLLAR MS65
    1974 D DOLLAR MS64
    1977 P DOLLAR MS66
    1977 D DOLLAR MS66
    1978 P DOLLAR MS65
    1978 D DOLLAR MS65

    1980 P DOLLAR MS67

    My grades matched the PCGS grade on 3 Ike dollars (72 P Type 1, 72-D and 78-D), was 2 points high on the 1973-P Ike dollar, was 1 point low on the 1974-D Ike dollar and was 1 point high on the 1974-P, 1977-P, 1977-D and 1978-P Ike dollars.

    My grade on the 1980-P SBA dollar was 3 grades high. :s

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII... Thanks for the grades comparison. We have all seen such results, but we keep learning and trying. Cheers, RickO

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very good! I can't wait for the pictures.

    As you know '69 quarters are very tough so these are remarkable grades.

    Ikes are funny because they are so big one's attention can become fixated on the problems instead of the overall coin. I don't even grade one the same every time. But your expectations for them might have been a little too high. For instance I doubt even one as issued '73-P in a thousand will go MS-65. Of course after decades of neglect, abuse, and cherry picking you'll probably need 2000 of the few remaining sets .

    They might be undergraded a little but generally they are close when not spot on.

    Tempus fugit.
  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Took a look at the 1969 in CoinFacts to see just how remarkable a 66 was and see only 14 graded higher, nicely done.

    While there, I noticed the submitter of this coin didn't do quite as well as you. Perhaps it was a submission of what was believed to be an ultra rare mint error...but instead just graded out at XF40 (one of only 2 at that grade). https://pcgs.com/cert/42206438

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am quite pleased with the grades assigned to the three quarters.

    Last year in another thread I mentioned that I was going to submit these two 1969 P quarters for grading.

    Wondercoin replied and guessed that the coins would grade MS64 and MS65.

    I am glad his guesses were 1 and 2 points low :)

    I will give more of my thoughts on this submission after Trueviews are posted.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ModCrewman said:
    Took a look at the 1969 in CoinFacts to see just how remarkable a 66 was and see only 14 graded higher, nicely done.

    While there, I noticed the submitter of this coin didn't do quite as well as you. Perhaps it was a submission of what was believed to be an ultra rare mint error...but instead just graded out at XF40 (one of only 2 at that grade). https://pcgs.com/cert/42206438

    I can hardly imagine what variety it was thought to be.

    I'd call it a high end VF. It's a little unattractive to me because of all the scratches and marking as has become so prevalent over the last decade or two. The stains don't help it any.

    As unremarkable as it seems to me (even as a VF) you'd have to look at about a half million quarters from circulation to find one nicer. Except for a few culls they'll be gone in ten years.

    My '69 from pocket change is a nice well made XF without the little scratches. I started the collection in '96 and this one was found around 2003 IMS.

    Sometimes I wonder if people just submit standouts from circulation thinking they are "rare". It does make an unusual slab.

    Tempus fugit.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The red and black verdigris on the obverse and the green and red on the reverse gives me pause as to why this one was straight graded at all.

    peacockcoins

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Speaking of Clad Quarters, a day or two ago I received a quarter in change. I put it in my pocket and did not bother to look at it until now.

    Surprising to me, it is a 1966 Quarter that looks to be a very well made AU.

    The quality of the strike and the overall look of the coin is much better than what one sees in a circulation strike example from 1966 (in general some 1965's were very well made and the next year most 1966s were horrible dogs). I will have to look at it through a 10x loupe, but I suspect it is an SMS coin that recently found its way into circulation.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,306 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2022 3:01PM

    @SanctionII said:
    Speaking of Clad Quarters, a day or two ago I received a quarter in change. I put it in my pocket and did not bother to look at it until now.

    Surprising to me, it is a 1966 Quarter that looks to be a very well made AU.

    The quality of the strike and the overall look of the coin is much better than what one sees in a circulation strike example from 1966 (in general some 1965's were very well made and the next year most 1966s were horrible dogs). I will have to look at it through a 10x loupe, but I suspect it is an SMS coin that recently found its way into circulation.

    I'm betting it has a little spot on it or is a little dark. Many wholesalers expect perfect Special Mint Sets so any coin that falls a little short is cause to return them. The '66 and '67 sets can be opened and the coins mix and matched but the '65 sets are simply destroyed which is why this date is pulling ahead in price.

    Coin dealers put a lot of this stuff into circulation and collectors add some to it.

    It's hardly impossible to be a circulation strike and this date isn't very expensive but it's a very very tough date to find in AU and even tougher to find well made. 1966 AU's have been gone from circulation since about 1983 and were the second date to disappear; right behind the '69.

    Tempus fugit.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I received the Clad coins back today from PCGS. Trueview photos will eventually be posted and available.

    The three MS66 quarters (1969P, 1969P and 1983P) are very nice examples of hard to find coins. One of the 1969P coins is my favorite since it has eye appealing light blue color and very nice "skin".

    The MS65 Ikes (1974D, 1977P, 1977D and 1978D) are also nice coins. The 1977D has very nice luster.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:
    I received the Clad coins back today from PCGS. Trueview photos will eventually be posted and available.

    The three MS66 quarters (1969P, 1969P and 1983P) are very nice examples of hard to find coins. One of the 1969P coins is my favorite since it has eye appealing light blue color and very nice "skin".

    The MS65 Ikes (1974D, 1977P, 1977D and 1978D) are also nice coins. The 1977D has very nice luster.

    The '69-P's are tougher the way coins are graded now but these can be readily found in nice chBU (63) where the '83-P is tough above MS-60 so is probably worth more.

    Tempus fugit.
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cladking.

    The PCGS price guide for the 1969P in MS66 is $115.00 (163 graded at MS66), while the price guide for the 1983P in MS66 is $160.00 (391 graded in MS66).

    That pop number difference and the price guide difference between these two coins is perplexing.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:
    Cladking.

    The PCGS price guide for the 1969P in MS66 is $115.00 (163 graded at MS66), while the price guide for the 1983P in MS66 is $160.00 (391 graded in MS66).

    That pop number difference and the price guide difference between these two coins is perplexing.

    Keep in mind that if you don't want to pay $115 for a chGem '69 you can buy a nice Gem for $20 or find a nice gemmy coin in a mint set for $1.

    But if you don't want to pay $160 for an '83-P you might still pay $100 for a Gem or $50 for a gemmy MS-64. Even a run of the mill MS-63 will take some serious searching because most of these are MS-62 or lower. Then the MS-63 will still cost $40 wholesale. People are encouraged to pay up for quality.

    1969 is the real darkhorse in clad quarters because they are far more elusive than people think and the attrition rate on them remains very very high. Not too many '83-P's are being lost, degraded, or spent. The '83 is a coin with a well known story but the '69 story is much less known.

    Tempus fugit.
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SanctionII said:
    Cladking.

    The PCGS price guide for the 1969P in MS66 is $115.00 (163 graded at MS66), while the price guide for the 1983P in MS66 is $160.00 (391 graded in MS66).

    That pop number difference and the price guide difference between these two coins is perplexing.

    it shouldn't be as rarer coins are submitted more. Look the pops and corresponding values for 1909 Lincolns versus 1909-S VDB

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