Wouldn't a saddle strike have an exactly known spacing between the two strikes based on the position of the dies in the press? If so, does this coin match that spacing?
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
That makes sense. It had to be on the planchet first. Thanks for that tidbit of info. If the coin were yours would you send it in. Or do you think it would be a waste of time.
Very cool error, Even though the center markings might make it rarer. I think I would prefer the error without the center markings, if I had a choice of one with the markings or not.
@CaptHenway said:
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
I agree. But it also doesn't seem like it could have been furrowed before the two saddle strikes without flattening the furrow. That makes its existence impossible, doesn't it?
@CaptHenway said:
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
I agree. But it also doesn't seem like it could have been furrowed before the two saddle strikes without flattening the furrow. That makes its existence impossible, doesn't it?
He is saying the furrow was flattened during the strike. I think. My biggest problem is I do not know enough about the minting process to figure it out. It is hard to just imagine with out knowledge of the whole process. I am a show me kind of guy.
@CaptHenway said:
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
I agree. But it also doesn't seem like it could have been furrowed before the two saddle strikes without flattening the furrow. That makes its existence impossible, doesn't it?
He is saying the furrow was flattened during the strike. I think. My biggest problem is I do not know enough about the minting process to figure it out. It is hard to just imagine with out knowledge of the whole process. I am a show me kind of guy.
He's saying the threads are flattened, but what about the other side? It appears to still be rounded.
And let's ask another question: how would you strike a blank planchet through a bolt without there being any evidence of the reverse die? The reverse die would have to be the anvil against which the bolt was struck.
I don't know if @CaptHenway is right about it being a Chinese counterfeit. But I think it has to be a fake.
@CaptHenway said:
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
I agree. But it also doesn't seem like it could have been furrowed before the two saddle strikes without flattening the furrow. That makes its existence impossible, doesn't it?
He is saying the furrow was flattened during the strike. I think. My biggest problem is I do not know enough about the minting process to figure it out. It is hard to just imagine with out knowledge of the whole process. I am a show me kind of guy.
I'll go one further: why are the threads BETWEEN the two coin strikes flattened? They never saw a strike?
I am just going to have to submit the coin and let the service make a decision. I know this is a PCGS site but for error coins is there a go to company or are the top two very similar?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
If there was an object in the coining chamber it might explain the saddle strike, it could not eject fully and was struck again after a partial ejection. The collar was jammed..
Comments
I voted man made because I don’t see how that made it past the counter machinery for the rolls and bags.
I think they go by weight - for the bags (the mint does not roll coins).
Wouldn't a saddle strike have an exactly known spacing between the two strikes based on the position of the dies in the press? If so, does this coin match that spacing?
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
@savitale it appears to be double struck but not a saddle strike. Two separate off center strikes its what it appears to be.
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Isn't there an error called struck through reeding? Is it possible that is what caused the tire-tread marks?
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Cents don't have reeding.
If the threaded object impacted this piece after the strike(s), there would be furrows raised up alongside the cuts. Think of a freshly plowed field.
If the threaded objects was between the planchet and the obverse die during the strike, the obverse die would not have been able to get through to strike up the design next to the threaded object, such as the 20, BER, etc.
That makes sense. It had to be on the planchet first. Thanks for that tidbit of info. If the coin were yours would you send it in. Or do you think it would be a waste of time.
Very cool error, Even though the center markings might make it rarer. I think I would prefer the error without the center markings, if I had a choice of one with the markings or not.
CoinBlog.net
I agree. But it also doesn't seem like it could have been furrowed before the two saddle strikes without flattening the furrow. That makes its existence impossible, doesn't it?
He is saying the furrow was flattened during the strike. I think. My biggest problem is I do not know enough about the minting process to figure it out. It is hard to just imagine with out knowledge of the whole process. I am a show me kind of guy.
He's saying the threads are flattened, but what about the other side? It appears to still be rounded.
And let's ask another question: how would you strike a blank planchet through a bolt without there being any evidence of the reverse die? The reverse die would have to be the anvil against which the bolt was struck.
I don't know if @CaptHenway is right about it being a Chinese counterfeit. But I think it has to be a fake.
I'll go one further: why are the threads BETWEEN the two coin strikes flattened? They never saw a strike?
I am just going to have to submit the coin and let the service make a decision. I know this is a PCGS site but for error coins is there a go to company or are the top two very similar?
Who took over for Fred at PCGS?
2005 ?
Maybe this was the object ? Just throwing it out there.
Jon Sullivan. Well qualified.
@CaptHenway Thanks! I agree.
If there was an object in the coining chamber it might explain the saddle strike, it could not eject fully and was struck again after a partial ejection. The collar was jammed..
Bump.
Any other thoughts on this coin?
It fell on Mars. Rover ran it over. Like a traintrack penny here.
It’s bizarre.
what else was in the chamber:
Grade has been finalized. I started a new thread for folks to give a guess.
What are your thoughts, Jon? @SullivanNumismatics
I believe it is genuine. I am no expert just a novice. As far as grade I have no idea. Not sure how they handle errors.