The Deceptive Counterfeits just keep ticking; bad 1787 Mass half cents...
burfle23
Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have written several articles on this bad counterfeit including ones published in Coin Week and C4's Newsletter stretching back to 2015, and have documented 3 in different TPG holders.
My 1st example and the "attribution marks":
A friend just sent me a note about an apparent counterfeit Ryder 6 example with a 4C reverse which matches the counterfeits; actually the obverse matches as well- it is a little confusing as the die crack to the foot was removed by the counterfeiters...
I notified the seller and received this response:
"So assuming you are correct how would such a piece be treated by copper collectors. I just paid $340.00 for the coin a couple of days ago. Does this piece have any collector value? Thanks for the info. Larry".
I responded no question I am correct 
, and it would certainly have wide collector interest if it were contemporary but unfortunately it is modern. We'll see how he responds going forward.
Unfortunately these are still out there and I continue to be vigilant!
Regards, Jack.
Comments
Jack,
Thanks for your efforts to help educate collectors and protect our hobby!
i'm no expert on colonials but i've bought a few over the years and looked at scores of them and wasn't optimistic going into this thread knowing how difficult it can be for john q to avoid colonial counterfeits modern or otherwise BUT with those diagnostics, it sure makes that particular line fairly easy to distinguish once one knows what to look for. problem is, getting the information out there to get the non-collectable ones out of circulation. one at a time i guess.
good work and keep it up!
I really enjoy these posts. Keep ‘em coming.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Jeez So that poor fellow got cheated, huh?
.
i'd only call it cheated if the seller intentionally sold it as authentic, knowing otherwise and since he just bought it, MAY have some recourse. all they have to do is tell the seller, "i saw it on the internet!"
It's always a good thing to be brushed on thing like this. 👍
It's your money at stake
@burfle23 the fabric of the counterfeits resembles a period piece. Could these be something in the middle? Not contemporary counterfeits, and not modern fakes, but perhaps something from the early 1900s? Nice work btw.
No, we actually know who the counterfeiters are and when these were made; started popping up in 2013.
Update; seller ended the listing and stated he will be returning the "coin" to the dealer he bought it from...
.
i'm not really looking for a specific answer but am curious how often you are coming across the stuff you post, ie. duplicates of known examples. you post the coin in the op, have you seen 5, 10, 100 or is this essentially the only one of this type so far.
just curious if there is some wording we can start using or if it is too soon. meaning, can i now say, well, we are finding these newly reported counterfeits, 1 out of every 500, 1000 etc. or if it is just too soon yet.
thanks
can i start using this or should i wait?
I keep records on the number of each denomination/ variety found!
Coin Week re-ran my previous article on this one at: https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/counterfeit-coin-week-1787-massachusetts-4c-half-cent-1-page-attribution-guide/
glad to see someone tackling colonials. those have been on my radar for a LONG time but it is no cake walk digging into those. a joy yes, but no cake walk.
now i'm thinking about them, we shouldn't be surprised if many more of these turn up. not even the contemporary ones but the period ones. why? well, if what i have read and heard and just a couple others have stated, during the time period of the date on the piece from that article, post and pre-civil war, it has been estimated that 2/3 of the money in commerce was counterfeit ! ! ! !
considering just how much of a not cake walk learning colonials is, it would stand to reason despite the MANY dedicated, long-term, brilliant etc people that have been and are into them, those/these people represent but just a small sector compared to the whole of numismatics so they aren't going to be able to filter everything. i'm not talking about the person that has a few in their collection or inventory but the true studied collector/dealer cannot remove all these from the market.
one of the many benefits of these threads/articles is that it can pin point what to look for, expediting the benefits of what some of us casual colonial buyer/seller types can contribute despite our lack of diverse professional knowledge, so thanks to all those whom have/are participating, as we only grow stronger because of these efforts. counterfeits/altered coins have always been around and always will be, so the only true solution is an informed an open collector/dealer base.
i'm not dense to the fact some out there may be sweating bullets wondering if their r7, 8 is essentially worthless. perhaps 5, 6 figure coin?
ok. edited this post. was about to run out AND had several people scraping shovels on concrete removing grass/debris from curbs and right around the middle of the original post, i really lost my ability to focus and those who read the original paid the price. LOL apologies. it should read a little easier now.
@burfle23 .... Thanks for posting! Very educational and a bit frightening too. Like a lot of other collectors, I've looked at Colonials a lot due to their historical significance, but realize there are a bunch of counterfeits out there and I'm out of my element in detecting them. At least I'm getting better at detecting fake Draped Bust Dollars! It helps to have the diagnostics you've posted as a guide... now, some of them look downright comical. lol!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Which TPGs holdered these fakes? Were they taken off the market?
NGC, PCGS and ANACS; 2 were taken off the market that I know of.
Early colonial coins have always intrigued me. However, I am not even close to knowledgeable enough to buy them casually. This is a great thread, and I am further enlightened as to how little I know about these coins. So, if I do acquire any, it will be slabbed and certified. Cheers, RickO