Straight Grade or Scratched?
pmh1nic
Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭✭✭
I really like the obverse of this coin but the scratches on the reverse are very much a distraction in my eyes. Do you think the coin should straight grade or details grade?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
1
Comments
I may be off, but the obverse ones look recent and the reverse ones look old almost like adjustment marks. Probably went straight in grade though will sell at a discount.
Pretty bad scratches. I would tend to believe it would details grade.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
This isn't anywhere in my area of numismatics, but I also see adjustment marks that should result in a straight grade.
Coin Photographer.
I wouldn't be happy if I bought it sight unseen in a problem free holder, but I've seen stuff like that make it into them before on coins that old.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
If it looks like a scratch it is a scratch. Genuine holder. I don't buy into the "ignore adjustment marks" bit.
Whether they are adjustment marks or graffiti is debatable... Either way, certainly a detraction on a desirable coin. Cheers, RickO
I see a lot of adjustment marks on the reverse. Can't tell from the pic if any are scratches. In any event, that reverse is ugly and I would pass on that coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I vote adjustment marks and it straight graded. I wouldn't want the coin. Adjustment marks even though as mint made are a recipe for a tough sale later. Always buy a coin knowing you'll probably sell it someday.
Irregardless of grade:
I would pass on it. I don’t like the coin nor think it would be an easy sale for me with the adjustment marks / whatever.
I buy material I like based on deal / how quickly can move. The bigger ticket an item the bigger the risk / potential loss.
Numismatic Material in inventory does not pay interest or dividends. Upward market potential is something I regard as conjecture / speculation. The bigger ticket they are the harder they can fall.
Those are pretty bad, yet old. I could see it going either way.
My YouTube Channel
I don’t like heavy adjustment marks, however they’re classified by the grading company. That said, I think the scratches on the obverse are a bit distracting in their own right (and definitely just scratches) and the surfaces look off to me, though that could be the photos. My opinion is that unless the coin looks vastly different in hand, this is not one I would be buying.
It's straight graded VF-30.
Not a coin that I would want.
I would prefer adjustment marks over an initial being punched on it !
But it doesn’t look like a scratch, it looks like an adjustment mark. It’s pre-strike.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Can a coin be "details" grade before it's struck?
It always hurts my eye to see this type of damage on such a nice coin such as this one.
So sad.
This would be a straight graded coin since those are adjustment marks and not scratches.
Adjustment marks are scratches and give a coin negative eye appeal.
The obverse is very nice and while adjustment marks were part of the minting process to obtain the correct weight if that many were needed I just as soon toss it back into the melting pot. But I guess they weren't thinking about collectors in the 21st century when the decision was being made.
Doesn’t matter if they give the coin negative eye appeal, there are as struck and not scratches. Adjustment marks are made to lower the weight of a heavy planchet and are a perfectly normal part of the production process for the period. They also don’t look remotely like scratches in the way they are shaped and the way they reflect light. You wanna details grade 75% of the French silver coins from the 1700s?
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
No.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
I wouldn't think so, either. I can understand that people might not like adjustment marks, but that doesn't mean coins struck with them automatically get a "details" grade.
I don’t even mind them, especially on low grade coins like this. They give the coin character. But yeah, any characteristic on a coin that is demonstrably from the pre-strike or striking process is not damage and not details-worthy.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
I agree. In a perfect world, I'd prefer coins without them but they are creatures of their times. I can live with them.
I don't like the scratches on the obverse. A large scratch like that should details grade any coin. Adjustment marks like on the reverse shouldn't details grade coin, but they aren't for everyone and it definitely makes a coin tougher to sell.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Definitely reverse adjustment marks (no cratering), straight grade. Obverse has numerous toned-over scratches that apparently are acceptable for a PCGS grade.
I have a few early coins with less severe adjustment marks. They can greatly affect PR's at auction. I am pulling from memory (check if you want) but these are recent examples of 1795 half dollars with severe adjustment marks that realized about half of PCGS value:
1795 O-109 PCGS XF40 $4320 Heritage (price guide $10K)
1795 O-124 PCGS AU50 $9300 Heritage (price guide 18K)
Another from a few years ago:
1795 O-115 PCGS AU53 $6300 Heritage
Moral: If you don't mind heavy adjustment marks or want an example, they are worth considerably less than those without, the exception being very rare coins - as in 1794 SP66 dollar.
This one went for $6150 (includes buyers fee).
Yes. Well, maybe not technically before it's struck, but huge planchet flaws will (usually) result in a details grade.
As for this coin, the reverse is OK. Those are clearly adjustment marks - numerous, unattractive ones, but acceptable. The obverse isn't so nice. The stuff on the portrait and in the right fields bugs me. Maybe it straight-graded, but this is a coin that would be easy to buy and difficult to sell.
i believe these are scratches, not adjustment marks on the reverse. the obverse also appears to have a scratch from the shoulder down to the bust. even if this coin straight graded, it has negative eye appeal for me.
Adjustment marks to me completely ruin the eye appeal of the coin. In the case of this coin, someone dropped the ball. Those reverse marks that go in all sorts of directions are scratches, not adjustment marks.
Planchet flaws will generally get called “Mint Error” and straight-graded if that service is paid for. If just sent in normally, they will get called details.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Yeah. I guess we can debate the semantics. I don't consider errors to be "straight-graded". They're errors, with grades. They are assigned a different PCGS number, usual pricing considerations and valuations don't apply, and they can't be included in regular registry sets.
None of this, of course, has anything to do with the OP's original question. The coin in question is not an error, and in my opinion, I'd probably prefer to see it in a details holder. An in-hand evaluation might change my mind. I certainly don't see the obverse as "choice" or "select" or "PQ".
As far as the reverse is concerned, they look like adjustment marks to me. There's no rule that I'm aware of that says they all need to go in the same direction. They often do, but sometimes they don't. They're also more prominent across the fields than the devices, as expected.