'56 Mantle Grade Question

daltex

I cropped out the ID number, but a friend just submitted this card and was displeased by the grade. I'm curious whether there are any ideas what the grade should be and why. I'll release the grade in ~24 hours.

maddux69

2-2.5

handyman

3? Crease on the back going through "hits" at mid left bottom?

fmclaug11

Agree with the 2-3, mark on the right white border by his ear?

nam812

The absolute top for this card is 4 if it is crease free.

KendallCat

2.5 if I had to guess based on centering and the crease/corners. Very nice centering and eye appeal.

80sOPC

Deuce

ldferg

Is that a pinhole on the edge, that doesn’t go all the way thru? If so, 1. If not, it maybe a 2MC.

empigtv

Two years ago this was probably a 4. Based on my recent orders and results, this is probably a 2 to 2.5 today.

1951WheatiesPremium

3

secretstash

@ldferg said:
Is that a pinhole on the edge, that doesn’t go all the way thru? If so, 1. If not, it maybe a 2MC.

miscut how?

1959

2.5 or 3. It's mantle. going to be graded tougher.

Norcal

I would say a 2

brad31

I am going to go 4 assuming none of the three lines on the front going across his face and hat are shadows/part of the sleeve and not in the card.

handyman

I have a feeling he thought 6-7 but Im staying with 3.

Goldenage

Was he expecting a PSA/DNA 9 ?

daltex

So my friend was hoping for a 5. Thanks to everyone for helping with the explanation. I was surprised to see pictures of the card come up with the cert look up.

handyman

Did you locate a crease or is it just because of the marks?

nam812

Here's the scan from the PSA site. I'm gonna admit that 2.5 seems a bit harsh, and it would not look out of place if it was a 3.5 with that centering.

ldferg

@secretstash said:

@ldferg said:
Is that a pinhole on the edge, that doesn’t go all the way thru? If so, 1. If not, it maybe a 2MC.

miscut how?

It looked more diamond cut from the back scan of the OP. The PSA scan is much better.

brad31

Think the 2.5 was a tough grade on this one. Think it could be a 3, 3.5 or even a 4.

If he sells it would consign somewhere like 4SC to get a few more eyeballs and go auction. Think it will sell for higher than the grade usually does.

handyman

It is a nice card. But like others said if those dots on the edges are like pen or pencil that would knock a card down 2-3 grades. And maybe a tiny bend somewhere. But if its just like a peace of dirt or something that might be a bit rough.

Ahmanfan

Good looking card. It’ll sell for 3-3.5 money I’m sure

handyman

Top boarder dead center. Between the 2 fans heads.To the right of the stain by his name. Is that a bend?? You can see it better in the PSA pic

Mickey71

The card graded before this....was it the Giannis or Ja Morant green or pink prizm halofoil ?? If it has a crease, wrinkle, stain, Son of Sam once owned it....doesn't matter. That's not a 2.5 under any circumstance. I'm really starting to lose hope that vintage will be graded properly.

coinkat

Not sure where to start or end without being asked to leave...

Seems there has been minimal consideration for the quality of the surfaces of the card. In looking at the card, perhaps the owner tilted the card and concluded that in general the card was well cared for and may exhibit a quality that would clearly exceed good. In this instance, a 2 (good) or 2.5 (good+) is simply not so good in that the appearance of the card clearly exceeds the expectations of that grade level.

I will just write that if that were my submission, I would not be happy. I do not own a 56 Mantle but I do have some better 56 cards and I enjoy them for what they were then and what they are now.

fmclaug11

I’m still focused on these circled areas as the possible reason for the grade…would like to know if these are just marks/stains or possibly an indentation in the top circle and/or a wrinkle in the bottom circle.

1951WheatiesPremium

When I posted, I guessed VG 3. I’ll elaborate a touch now in the hopes of helping the OP:

You posted the card ‘landscape’ so when I say top and bottom edges it is referring to the longer edges. They’re in terrible shape and 1956 is not known for rough cuts so that is going to be deemed ‘wear’ and it is considerable. The name box top left has two or three stains one of which is large and noticeable just past ‘E’ in Mantle by where the red box meets the white. There is the stain in the right border that was already pointed out. The card has no sharp corners, is noticeably off center left to right and top to bottom and three of the four corners are pretty fuzzy. The surface has what looks like some surface scratches lower right but that’s always tougher to decipher through a slab.

Having said all that, tell your friend that he has a magnificent eye and that it went to PSA as a really beautiful card and still came home the same way. I have a card that is pretty similar in a lot of ways in that the flaws are pretty well hidden and the card is a beauty despite its accurate assigned technical grade. And I think the centering and clean edges help the presentation of my card considerably.

Hope it helps…

1951WheatiesPremium

@daltex - Hope the above is helpful.

DM23HOF

I would have said 3.5 to 4.

jay0791

I say psa 2

That was even before I scrolled down.

Mickey71

Let me ask a simple question based on the obviously great eye appeal of this card. If that's accurately Graded as a 2.5.... then is a 3 or 4 considered HIGH GRADE ?? And what could possibly get a 6 or 7 with so rigid of standards??

1951WheatiesPremium

@Mickey71 said:
Let me ask a simple question based on the obviously great eye appeal of this card. If that's accurately Graded as a 2.5.... then is a 3 or 4 considered HIGH GRADE ?? And what could possibly get a 6 or 7 with so rigid of standards??

No. I think 1-3 is low grade, 4-6 is mid grade, 7+ is high grade. And I want to be sure that I say this the right way: the grade of a card and the eye appeal of a card are two very different things. They can be related but they don’t have to be: my two 1969 Mantles below are, I think, both correctly graded. However, I believe the combined attributes of the PSA graded example has created significantly better eye appeal despite being the lower grade example…

…but I also fully recognize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder: the ‘69 WL’s fuzzy top right corner would be a dealbreaker for a lot of people.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Mickey71

I think the PSA holder can really make a card look sharper; the top and bottom edges of that cards are in very rough shape - looks like an OPC.

And again, it’s beautiful.

brad31

Not my cards just looked on EBay for a good example (have a Snider that is an example but it is in an SGC holder). PSA does not deduct any grades for rough cuts on ‘56 cards. The rough cut in no way affected the grade of the Mantle. I know they do not deduct on ‘54s as well. Not sure they deduct on any Topps issues from the 50s (would guess ‘51 if a rough cut existed).

I personally like the rough cut look, others do not, but It is not a factor in this Mantle being graded a 2.5.

1951WheatiesPremium

@brad31 said:
Not my cards just looked on EBay for a good example (have a Snider that is an example but it is in an SGC holder). PSA does not deduct any grades for rough cuts on ‘56 cards. The rough cut in no way affected the grade of the Mantle. I know they do not deduct on ‘54s as well. Not sure they deduct on any Topps issues from the 50s (would guess ‘51 if a rough cut existed).

I personally like the rough cut look, others do not, but It is not a factor in this Mantle being graded a 2.5.

@brad31 - Great info! I stand corrected.

brad31

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@brad31 said:
I personally like the rough cut look, others do not, but It is not a factor in this Mantle being graded a 2.5.

@brad31 - Great info! I stand corrected.

That is one of my favorite parts about this board. We all have pockets of knowledge and willingly share.

daltex

Following up, any idea why the cert verification page gives broken links for the images?

https://psacard.com/cert/64749581

KendallCat

Great info guys and thanks for sharing. With 56’s personally I am not a fan of the rough cut but everyone is different. My question is how much does PSA take the grade down for an indentation? One of the 56 Mantles I own looks like an 8/9 but has one in the right border and knocks the grade way down.

Hopefully in AC I can find one more 56 Mantle in an 8.5 for my PC and call it a day.

Goldenage

Funny. I believe a PSA 9 can have a wax stain, but an indentation drops it to a 5 ?

Absolutely ridiculous. That card is still near mint and should be a 7 unless that indentation is more like a light crease than a small indentation

KendallCat

@Goldenage said:
Funny. I believe a PSA 9 can have a wax stain, but an indentation drops it to a 5 ?

Absolutely ridiculous. That card is still near mint and should be a 7 unless that indentation is more like a light crease than a small indentation

Thank you. Indentation is on the right border on the white midway down, and unless you know to look for it and hold the card at an angle you won’t see it. Having said that I enjoy the eye appeal of a card that looks like a 7/8 but cost a ton less.