CAC Approval Variability
DisneyFan
Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
I found these comments in today's Gerry Fortin's Blog worthwhile.
Several clients have expressed frustrations concerning higher value better dates being submitted to CAC and not approved followed by selling those pieces only to see the same coin CAC approved for the buyer. This begs the question on the CAC operating standards as many among us believed that if a submitted coin is not approved, the non-approval decision is entered into a CAC database. Some believe that CAC then uses this information to pre-screen new submissions towards removing those coins from review if previously seen and non-approved.
All evidence that I have accumulated suggests that this is not the case. Previously unapproved coins are being approved on subsequent attempts. The percentage is low as borderline coins are the issue. My theory is that as CAC expands its reviewing staff, the fact that multiple individuals are inspecting and approving coins brings differing opinions. A choice borderline coin that was rejected by one staff member might be approved by another CAC reviewer. Like TPG grading, CAC review has a subjectivity component. As grading or review staffing changes, the probability for differing opinions is a constant challenge to manage.
Bottom line, if you believe one of your prized coins is conservatively graded plus having choice original surfaces and eye appeal but does not win a CAC green bean on the first attempt, I would not fret. Selling the coin is the incorrect decision. Please remember that we are collecting coins and not TPG labels or CAC beans. Each collector sees a coin from their perspective. That perspective is a function of grading experience and the understanding of metallurgy and the many ways that coins can be "enhanced" for a higher TPG grade. CAC plays an excellent role for screening coins that have seen post mint treatments along with ensuring that the grading is conservative. However, eye appeal and the level of surface abrasions are a different story. What might be acceptable to one CAC reviewer might not be for another. Please keep this in mind when your prized key date does not sticker. Secure a second opinion from a trusted collector friend or dealer with the physical coin in hand for discussion. I would NOT advise posting images of a non-approved coin on a message board and asking for an explanation as to why the coin did not sticker. Photography brings more variability and is unable to capture natural luster, as an example.
Comments
"Please remember that we are collecting coins and not TPG labels or CAC beans"
A key reminder for many who are obsessed with CAC. I like to own CAC coins, but there are a lot of great coins that are worth owning who don't have the blessing. Slightly overgraded due to rub or an old cleaning that does not detract from the eye appeal are examples.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
glad i read on. this is the point.
"The percentage is low as borderline coins are the issue. "
these things stand out for individuals, as the percentage is probably really low on coins submitted but not beaning the first time(s) but then passing later and can be a standout to someone only submitting a single or just a few coins.
so the lesson here for those that submit very few coins for cac review, if they don't bean the first time(s), submit again or make peace that one day someone else will, just like with grading.
The percentage is probably very low, but I can give you three examples that I know for a fact that were submitted to CAC, not beaned only to be sold to larger national firms, then showed up a few months to a year later with beans, and one case upgraded and beaned.
Liner coins exist everywhere and are nothing new.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Some good advice I think.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
From the cac website.
Are the serial numbers of PCGS or NGC coins submitted to CAC for verification recorded? If so, are coins automatically rejected by CAC that have previously been submitted but were not stickered?
The serial numbers of all PCGS and NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are recorded at the time they are entered into the CAC system.
All PCGS or NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are reviewed for CAC verification whether they have previously been submitted to CAC or not. Occasionally a coin that has previously been rejected for CAC verification is reconsidered by CAC and stickered.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
This has been going on since day one and some collectors even left the hobby after dumping their coins only to see them reappear stickered. There's no excuse for errors as it's not rocket science when agreeing or disagreeing with an already pre-graded TPG coin as it either stickers or it doesn't.
Regarding the part of the opening post that reads: "My theory is that as CAC expands its reviewing staff, the fact that multiple individuals are inspecting and approving coins brings differing opinions. A choice borderline coin that was rejected by one staff member might be approved by another CAC reviewer. Like TPG grading, CAC review has a subjectivity component. As grading or review staffing changes, the probability for differing opinions is a constant challenge to manage"
I'm not aware of CAC having expanded its "reviewing staff". But even if they have, as far as I know, coins don't receive stickers unless JA approves them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Does JA look at every single coin? I dont know the answer and not trying to stir the pot
Yeah, It's not like they have any kind of anonymous submission format. Hey, Buddy, Buddy!
Hopefully, I misunderstood your post, as it sounds libelous to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Can't be proven with certainty on either side!
You're digging yourself in, more deeply and foolishly.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Hmmm, you don't know what I know! I have several experiences shared with me where I don't think I need to worry!