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Usps on envelope arriving empty

logger7logger7 Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 7, 2022 1:52PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I got this message from a buyer: "I have terrible news to report , my package came in my mail box today and I’m a victim of theft. The package was ripped open literally , attached is a picture as how I found the package".

I thought the usps was supposed to separate out damaged items and mark them as such. This is ebay standard envelope, securely wrapped.

Clearly my mistake to not do a sandwich mailer which I don't have, used recycled material in the envelope, heavily taped.

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Comments

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,751 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thievery is getting out of control at USPS. Several months ago, I was delivered a clearly compromised package that tracking revealed was marked for "return to sender." Got delivered anyway. Empty of contents. Disgusting.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 5:51AM

    Was that a bubble wrapped package inside a paper envelope? What was the item? A slab or roll?

  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,687 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I pack coins for mailing in one of those padded envelopes, I use those cardboard coin holders. The less a person can tell whats in a package, the less chance of them opening to steal. As mentioned, theivery is getting rampant everywhere.

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 5:49AM

    I ship most everything in a box these days.
    Too bad it's come down to this.
    Pretty much have to play hide and seek with the postal employees and hopefully you get honest ones handling business.

    That could have been a rural area mailbox?
    A passerby probably would have just taken all the contents of the mailbox and sorted it out later?

    Might check out the buyers feedback?

    I'd put a claim in with the postal inspector and ask

    WTF???

    Another Scooby Doo Mystery.

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,506 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All I can add is UPS is worse.

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭✭✭

    had a few packages arrive with a note saying what happened but i accept that using the mail is a risky idea as anything can happen that is beyond my control

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,698 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess being in a remote area in the country is not all bad. There is no way my post office would have placed that for delivery or in a box. It would have been held and a P.O. card stating damaged package would have been placed in my box. The person that received the package should not have accepted it or if delivered to their box, they should contact the delivery agent and ask why they did not mark it as damaged. JMO
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    i was under the impression that type of shipping wasn't permitted for standard envelope as it is too thick?

    https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/ebay-standard-envelope.html?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

    even if someone ships items like this successfully, it will be inevitable that a machine will tangle with one of the packages, imo.


    But in this case it was ripped open so that is not the issue.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    But in this case it was ripped open so that is not the issue.

    .
    the point i was trying to humerously make, is that it was ripped open BECAUSE it didn't confrom to the requirements. so if it went through the normal channels, it would likely have encountered an evil, onery and quite hangry usps sorting machine. ya know?

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've got some other pictures from the buyer from other angles. Clearly one edge torn open to pilfer the coins. I made it more secure because the buyer sent me a message he did not want loss.

  • FunwithMPLFunwithMPL Posts: 328 ✭✭✭

    I have never had a problem with shipping with USPS. I also use a box and use nylon tape around the box in every direction. I rather be safe then sorry.

    Collector
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    I've got some other pictures from the buyer from other angles. Clearly one edge torn open to pilfer the coins. I made it more secure because the buyer sent me a message he did not want loss.

    .
    did you attach the coin(s) to the packing slip or their own secure method? surely you didn't just throw coins in the envelope and/or just in 2x2s loose in there?

    for the record, i'm not trying to pick. (i've had a few before standard shipping have various things happen resulting in losses)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Though it's easy to blame the USPS for things like this the actual blame typically rests with the shippers and the way articles are packaged. Placing an item such as a slabbed coin loose inside of a bubble mailer is little more than sticking loose change inside of a standard envelope. It's asking for problems, especially when the cost of additional packaging materials is quite low.

    I recently received two separate shipments from Stack's and they package things so as to prevent any chance of an incident like this taking place: each item was placed inside a small, sealed cardboard container, that was placed inside a larger similar container that fit snuggly inside of the shipping container, also heavy cardboard, sealed and taped. As packaged, I had to cut open four things to get the shipped item.

    Better safe than sorry with a thread like this.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These thefts started when postal employees were allowed to sign for the recipient due to Covid. Now that the pandemic is almost over, the USPS will go back to requiring the recipient to sign for his package.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    I recently received two separate shipments from Stack's and they package things so as to prevent any chance of an incident like this taking place: each item was placed inside a small, sealed cardboard container, that was placed inside a larger similar container that fit snuggly inside of the shipping container, also heavy cardboard, sealed and taped. As packaged, I had to cut open four things to get the shipped item.

    That's all well and good, but I'm sure Stack's charges far more for shipping than buyers on eBay would be willing to pay.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    I thought the usps was supposed to separate out damaged items and mark them as such.

    They usually do that. How do you know the package wasn't ripped open after the USPS carrier put it in the mailbox?

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Now that the pandemic is almost over,

    .
    what premise do you base this on? (not asking antagonistically nor sarcastically)

    given the importance of the subject matter, i'm interested. (reported actual new cases/reported deaths etc?)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • gtstanggtstang Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That looks like it was double bubble wrapped too. I caught a buyer years ago that claimed coins I shipped went missing. I looked into his feedback and he had multiple feedbacks from different sellers claiming the same thing. I told him to contact his p.o. about the problem and did not refund anything. He was obviously scamming. Maybe you could leave feedback on his page stating the issue in case this is a scammy buyer.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    These thefts started when postal employees were allowed to sign for the recipient due to Covid. Now that the pandemic is almost over, the USPS will go back to requiring the recipient to sign for his package.

    Still wouldn't matter here, there is no signature required for eBay standard envelope shipping.

  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I tried to ship a bubble envelope by "ebay standard envelope" but the clerk wouldn't accept it without me paying the "package" rate.
    I only tried it once.......

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 7:33AM

    No thick bubble mailer, recycled; I aimed for the 1/4 inch thickness rule but probably was a little over that. Coins were in small plastic sleeves.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    What's suspicious on this is this was the only person who has asked me to ship securely before I mailed an item saying he didn't want coins falling out. Never had someone say that before. Probably no way to prove what happened, but usps usually has a standard plastic envelope they send damaged packages in with a lame apology for what happened.

    Buyer's note: Hello, please make sure coins are secured in packaging to avoid coins rolling around freely which may cause coins to tear through its packaging, thanks.

    That doesn’t sound suspicious to me. Why would he mention it in advance, if he planned to pull a scam? I think it’s more likely that (as many of us have) he’s received some poorly packed shipments and would like to avoid another one.

    .
    i have had buyers ensure i ship something properly on several occasions. i just ensured them i will and everything went fine (iirc). just as often as sellers are worried about being scammed by buyers, buyers are worried about lazy shippers and i'm sure there are buyers that are looking to buy specific coins, even if low value and i've had messages from sellers telling me as such. (for birthdays, gifts, holidays etc)

    so that communication isn't suspicious on its own like mfeld stated. there are careful, considerate and decent buyers out there. the whole thing falls apart otherwise. :)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never use bubble mailers on the outside of a package. They tear if you look at them wrong! I use heavy mylar envelopes with proper packing inside...usually with thin cardboard inside mylar, bubble inside cardboard. Knock on wood...none damaged yet. Had a few lost....maybe because a theif went after what was inside and had to destroy the package to get what was inside!

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Was that a bubble wrapped package inside a paper envelope? What was the item? A slab or roll?

    If sending slabs I usually wrap them in bubble pack to get the package at least an inch thick. Sometimes it's helpful to put the label on first if the package is too thick. I've sent stuff to the IRS that way too. It lets one print the label and get free tracking too.

    FWIW www.paypal.com/shipnow is now pirate ship.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    i was under the impression that type of shipping wasn't permitted for standard envelope as it is too thick?

    https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/shipping/ebay-standard-envelope.html?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336728181&customid=&toolid=10001

    even if someone ships items like this successfully, it will be inevitable that a machine will tangle with one of the packages, imo.

    But in this case it was ripped open so that is not the issue.

    It is if it was ripped open by the machine.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @JBK said:
    Was that a bubble wrapped package inside a paper envelope? What was the item? A slab or roll?

    If sending slabs I usually wrap them in bubble pack to get the package at least an inch thick. Sometimes it's helpful to put the label on first if the package is too thick. I've sent stuff to the IRS that way too. It lets one print the label and get free tracking too.

    FWIW www.paypal.com/shipnow is now pirate ship.

    You can't send 1st class letter of it's an inch thick.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @PerryHall said:
    These thefts started when postal employees were allowed to sign for the recipient due to Covid. Now that the pandemic is almost over, the USPS will go back to requiring the recipient to sign for his package.

    Still wouldn't matter here, there is no signature required for eBay standard envelope shipping.

    It's almost like people ignore the OP.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gtstang said:
    That looks like it was double bubble wrapped too. I caught a buyer years ago that claimed coins I shipped went missing. I looked into his feedback and he had multiple feedbacks from different sellers claiming the same thing. I told him to contact his p.o. about the problem and did not refund anything. He was obviously scamming. Maybe you could leave feedback on his page stating the issue in case this is a scammy buyer.

    Bubble wrap through a 1st class sort machine is not the same as bubble wrap via package rate. The machines are very different.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember years ago a seller sent me a slabbed coin in a plain white paper envelope. Shocked it arrived in one piece and more amazingly they only put one stamp on it. Took exactly one week to arrive verses the usual 3 days it took for first class letters.

  • slider23slider23 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 12:41PM

    Your package could have ripped going through the sorting machines, then the thief helped themselves. If you ship eBay Standard envelope, the envelope MUST be under the 1/4" thick, or the envelope can snag on the sorting machines and tear open. There are also USPS employees that will pull over thick envelopes and charge the buyer 1st class package postal rate. Purchase some safe T mailers for your envelope size. You will need to squish down the safe T mailer once the coins are in the envelope (I step on it) to make sure it is under the 1/4" thickness. Put some clear shipping tape on the end of the envelope, so the paper can not tear going through sorting machines. If a thief wants to get the coins out, they will have to tear everything up.

    You should also file a eBay standard envelope claim for lost coins. I am not sure how eBay will handle the claim being the package was ripped open. I won a couple eBay standard envelope claims for lost coins.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:
    I remember years ago a seller sent me a slabbed coin in a plain white paper envelope. Shocked it arrived in one piece and more amazingly they only put one stamp on it. Took exactly one week to arrive verses the usual 3 days it took for first class letters.

    I've received several slabs like that busted!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @slider23 said:
    Your package could have ripped going through the sorting machines, then the thief helped themselves. If you ship eBay Standard envelope, the envelope MUST be under the 1/4" thick, or the envelope can snag on the sorting machines and tear open. There are also USPS employees that will pull over thick envelopes and charge the buyer 1st class package postal rate. Purchase some safe T mailers for your envelope size. You will need to squish down the safe T mailer once the coins are in the envelope (I step on it) to make sure it is under the 1/4" thickness. Put some clear shipping tape on the end of the envelope, so the paper can not tear going through sorting machines. If a thief wants to get the coins out, they will have to tear everything up.

    You should also file a eBay standard envelope claim for lost coins. I am not sure how eBay will handle the claim being the package was ripped open. I won a couple eBay standard envelope claims for lost coins.

    Or there is no thief. Items found on the sorting room floor are put into the lost mail room. If unclaimed, they are eventually auctioned.

    I know of a case where $50,000 in coins were lost from a ripped overnight bag. They were auctioned off by the USPS. There was no "thief".

  • Stingray63Stingray63 Posts: 299 ✭✭✭

    I've been on the losing end twice already and USPS takes no responsibility.

    Pocket Change Inspector

  • slider23slider23 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭✭

    I would file the eBay claim as the coins were lost in shipping due to envelope being ripped open by sorting machines.

    The following is per the eBay site for claim filing:

    How do I file a claim on a shipment that was lost or damaged?
    Each eBay standard envelope shipment includes a $20 shipping protection plan on single item orders, and up to $50 on combined orders, to help in case of lost or damaged items.

    If you believe your shipment was lost in shipping, you must wait 30 days to file a claim. You can reduce the amount of the claim if your shipment was only partially lost or damaged, however the claim amount cannot be more than the item's sold price.

    To file a claim, select the button below and add the following information to the form:

    Tell us what happened - was your item damaged, or was your shipment lost?

  • bearcavebearcave Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 1:46PM

    Ebay and the seller both said the package had been delivered according to tracking. Is what I was told.

    Ken
  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I ship coins of any value, say >$500, I put the coin in a padded envelope, put bubble wrap around the padded envelope. Put this in a box and put the box in another box. Packing tape all around both boxes. This is close to how Heritage sends coins out, wrapper in a wrapper….or box in a box.

    I had a FedEx box (2”x10”x12”, or something like that) from HA that looked like someone tried to rip it open, only there was another box say 1”x3”x5”, and they didn’t get that inner box out. I’m guessing it has to be a smash and grab, there isn’t time to cleanly get away with trying to yank the next box out and then tear into that one.

    If you try to save a few bucks on wrapping and postage, it will bite you in the ass!

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I recently bought a coin that was $5,000 and I told the seller how I wanted it packaged….box in a box. Only way to go!

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Herb_T said:
    When I ship coins of any value, say >$500, I put the coin in a padded envelope, put bubble wrap around the padded envelope. Put this in a box and put the box in another box. Packing tape all around both boxes. This is close to how Heritage sends coins out, wrapper in a wrapper….or box in a box.
    If you try to save a few bucks on wrapping and postage, it will bite you in the ass!

    eBay standard envelope is for items valued at $20 or less. Your packaging system is overkill for something like that.

    I've shipped hundreds (at least) of coins by eBay standard envelope in a corrugated mailer inside a standard #10 envelope with no reports of damage.

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With all the chaos going on When I ship "everything" now goes out registered mail. Most everything I mail has a value of $4k and higher. It does take a long time to get there but it gets there! I just sent a package to GC on Monday and it arrived today Friday. The last one took 8 days.
    Worst part about shipping coins is shipping coins! There seems to be no accountability from the postal services so I take no chances.

  • AtcarrollAtcarroll Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    These thefts started when postal employees were allowed to sign for the recipient due to Covid. Now that the pandemic is almost over, the USPS will go back to requiring the recipient to sign for his package.

    Suuuure they will.

  • Herb_THerb_T Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @Herb_T said:
    When I ship coins of any value, say >$500, I put the coin in a padded envelope, put bubble wrap around the padded envelope. Put this in a box and put the box in another box. Packing tape all around both boxes. This is close to how Heritage sends coins out, wrapper in a wrapper….or box in a box.
    If you try to save a few bucks on wrapping and postage, it will bite you in the ass!

    eBay standard envelope is for items valued at $20 or less. Your packaging system is overkill for something like that.

    I've shipped hundreds (at least) of coins by eBay standard envelope in a corrugated mailer inside a standard #10 envelope with no reports of damage.

    Might be overkill, but the coin will arrive.

  • hfjacintohfjacinto Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I spoke to my mail carrier and she stated that “if a letter/package gets damaged in transit, it’s put in a plastic bag with a note that the letter/package was damaged and given to the recipient”.

    She said you can file a missing mail claim and if the items are found they will be shipped to the receiver.

    I can state that the 1 damaged item of my hundreds that got delivered was in a plastic envelope and coin was still inside.

    Personally I think this is a scam on the buyers part. The asking about how it’s shipped was the first sign of a scam in process.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More and more I am seeing the wisdom of box packaging for shipment of expensive items. I do not often need to do that, but the security is worth it - seems more effective than purchasing insurance (though I would do that as well). Cheers, RickO

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2022 4:45AM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @BAJJERFAN said:

    @JBK said:
    Was that a bubble wrapped package inside a paper envelope? What was the item? A slab or roll?

    If sending slabs I usually wrap them in bubble pack to get the package at least an inch thick. Sometimes it's helpful to put the label on first if the package is too thick. I've sent stuff to the IRS that way too. It lets one print the label and get free tracking too.

    FWIW www.paypal.com/shipnow is now pirate ship.

    You can't send 1st class letter of it's an inch thick.

    I don't use a 1st class letter, I use a bubble pack envelope. I have gotten regular letter sized mail with a check where the label was a like an eBay/PP printed one. The USPS people just let it go through. I guess it beat waiting in line at the PO to buy tracking.

    I suppose they might think it odd that it was sent that way, but I wouldn't expect them to understand postal regulations and it's $5 cheaper than using a flat rate envelope.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2022 8:40AM

    .

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