Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and other deceased greats autograph price question
Goldenage
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If you are a collector, or have knowledge in the area of autograph sales of deceased great players like Ruth, Williams, Cobb, or autographs from other great players from any sport.
For example, many here collect autographed cards of Mickey Mantle. Some autographed cards of Babe Ruth. Some collect autographed cards of Bart Starr, Pete Maravich, or Muhammad Ali.
Could you inform me of the price increases you’ve noticed on these items over the past 10-20 years, or if they’ve stayed the same.
Say you know of a PSA 6 authentic auto 1964 Topps Mantle that sold for X amount of dollar in 2011 is now selling for X.
Or a 1970 Topps Maravich PSA 7 authentic auto in 2004 sold for X and is now selling for X.
There is no PSA database I believe for completed auctions on items like this.
Only cards please. No other autographed items. Thank you.
Comments
There's a 1994 Upper Deck card with Mickey Mantle and Ken Griffey, Jr
Sometimes it is autographed by one and sometimes by both.
The card autographed by both used to go for about $2K about 5 years ago, but has recently seen $10K to $15K (maybe higher for very high grades).
There's also a 1994 Upper Deck All-Time Heroes card with just Mickey Mantle. That card has seen a slight bump in the same time frame, but nowhere near the increase as the Mantle/Griffey card. I think 5 years ago you could get this card for about $500, and now between $1,000 - $2,000 depending on if it's graded and the actual grade.
Thank you very much. This is exactly the kind of information I’m looking for. The knowledge on this board is so useful.
Any different deceased sports greats would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you DotStore
You can access some sales via the PSA Auction Prices Revealed: the ones you’re looking for will have PSA/DNA logos in the sales reports. Not a ton of data but some and that should be expected. This is a bit of a hobby overlap effect because the love of the modern collectors for the auto cards has leaked into vintage because those same collectors now want cards of the stars of yesteryear to match their collection of current crop of stars (signed). In addition, you have a large number of collectors who grew up in the hobby with the idea that autographs “ruined cards” so they shouldn’t be signed or only lower grade examples should be. So higher grade cards that have been signed are tough to come by as are signed star cards in general. Instinctively, the older the player, the tougher they are to come by: if the player passed away young and/or before the advent of shows you had personal encounters as the only real means of acquiring the autograph. So a player like Mickey who was signing into the early nineties or a guy like Bob Feller (of whom it’s said it’s easier to find signed example than unsigned ones because he was such a prolific signer 😂) are a bit easier to come by than say a Thurman Munson, Jackie Robinson or Ty Cobb - and that is reflected in prices and values. But like everything else, values have exploded in this growing hobby niche over the last 10 years. I would say the card itself matters, too. Base cards from major sets will be better than some of the offshoots and rookies better than both.
I imagine a better trajectory for the value of the second card, for example, despite liking both:
But anytime you have hobby overlap it is great for values: the more people willing to compete for an item, the better the general price and the market has moved that way already and I believe that trend continues.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I’m assuming that Mantle signed cards pre-1970 have appreciated in value above photos and balls simply because people have a personal connection to the cards. Yes or no.
For the most part, yes, though sometimes it can depend on the photo.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I'd say it's easiest to see the increase in Mantle-signed playing days cards. I owned some before (later 60's cards) and think I only paid a couple hundred for them 10 or so years ago. For an earlier '50s card, I'd expect to have paid a few hundred, or maybe $1000. I remember in 2019 someone was offering a beautiful signed '53 Topps Mantle for $6500 and I thought that was absurd. Now it would probably go for $15-20k. Which is funny, because Mantle signed SO MUCH in the 80s & 90s.
As for Ruth, I don't know what a signed Goudey would've sold for a decade ago, probably $10-15k or so. But I know of one recently on the market and they were looking to get around $100k for it.
Signed Goudey Ruths are well, well above 100k. It would have to have very low eye appeal to sell for 100k.
A signed #53 that had a significant portion cut off at the bottom sold for #135,484 at Memory Lane in 2021.
A better example of the #53 with a 6 grade signature sold for $200,000 in that same year.
One signed Goudey Ruth from the Uncle Jimmy Collection sold for $761,000 at Wheatland, and another sold for $436,000.
In November 2017, Heritage sold a signed #53 for $52,800.
I predominantly collect signed vintage cards, especially Mantle.
An example of his signed 1952T traded hands at $15,000 back in 2014. It subsequently sold for $250,000 and would get well upwards of 500k now. Much lesser examples have now sold consistently above $200,000.
Similarly Mantle's 1951B RC has its most recent three sales, in varying states of eye appeal, at:
$132,000
$194,000
$216,000
And before that, back in 2020, two sold in the 40k zone. So massive appreciation there as well.
Same goes for his other playing days cards. Signed 52 Bowmans have sold for as high as $69,000, with one selling this week for $40,000. I bought one for 14.5k two years ago.
The 1962 Topps in a 4 card, 8 auto sold for $1600 just a year ago, and then at Goldin a few months ago for $7500. A better looking one hit 20k.
Memory Lane has a signed 1953 Topps Mantle that is currently over $20,000 with weeks to go. Link below:
https://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/bidplace?itemid=69977
Nolan Ryan's RC in a 6 card 10 auto just sold on eBay for $5100.
Pivoting to a brief discussion of the primary drivers and undergirding logic behind the surging prices of signed vintage, I would say the cause is increasing awareness of the pop report data.
For example, there are only 47 signed 1953 Topps Mantles in any grade and eye appeal state in the pop report.
In stark comparison, there are 93 PSA 8s, and over 4800 graded unsigned. That makes a signed 1953 Topps Mantle significantly rarer than an unsigned example, and about twice as rare as a PSA 8. It is also worth noting that in one case the rarity is created by the legend having held and signed the card, in the other, the rarity is created by the subjective opinion of a grader.
These glaring pop data disparities continue for every card out there. For example, there are only 35 signed 1954 Bowman Mantles, as compared to some 4500 unsigned. And of those 35 signed, perhaps only half have decent eye appeal.
Thank you for contributing. This is an excellent analysis.
Thank you everyone for contributing.
I know Mantle is an icon.
imo most Mantle auto's you see on ebay are fake. He died 27 years ago, but in any givin day there are 1000's of his autographs for sale? LOL
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Did Uncle Jimmy satisfy the market, bring too much to market, or not enough ?
The Uncle Jimmy offering was truly the perfect amount to take what was a rather undercover sector of the hobby-- signed vintage-- and thrust it into a dramatic spotlight.
There could have been six more Ruth and Gehrigs and prices would have maintained those lofty levels-- so many buyers were lined up and the super duper rich guys (that's a technical term) beat many of us down bigtime in that auction.
I went near 200k for the #92 Gehrig hoping the whales would slug it out for the Ruths, and got clobbered. Was a humbling auction. Loved how it showed there are buyers out there who are beyond comfortable knowing how to price signed vintage cards like that and throw the bids as well. I get a lot of questions on Instagram about how to gauge price and value on such cards. I personally love pieces that defy reductive analysis based on sheer grade and VCP grid.
In sum, the Uncle Jimmy Collection auction had the psychological effect of making all us underbidders more aggressive, should a low pop signed vintage card surface and be within reach. Nicely centered cards of dead legends with a well placed, bold signature just do not surface often enough.
Not enough to satisfy the market sounds good for prices, but bad for middle income collectors.
Once held my own private auction for a rare item with three guys I knew well. I said listen friends, just call me and tell me the most you can offer and may the best man win. The two guys bid around $1000. The CEO of a company bid $7,777.
Some of these cards are like beach front property in Malibu. Only a few get to play.
I think low grade Ruth signatures on baseballs have roughly doubled in the last 3-4 years. For example, I purchased the below Auto for a little more than $3K in 2018. It would probably sell for $7-8K now.
Lou Gehrig Master Set
Non-Registry Collection
Game Used Cards Collection
Few people know the market like you, as we've talked on IG and I have seen your awesome collection. Were you surprised that the signed Goudey 181 went for only $90k in REA's last auction? It had trimmed borders but was a beautiful (PSA 7) auto.
Thanks for the kind words. I felt that cut-down #181 went high, actually— it is a very specific piece that will appeal to some, and not to others. The auto was beautiful, as you rightly note. The card just eliminates a good amount of buyers at that price point, who will prefer to slug it out and pay much more for a completely intact card. The $100,000 zone for a sportscard is extremely expensive to say the least, in my opinion; that price point is very rarefied air, and so any card that comes even close to playing in that space is just tremendous. Hence I think that #181 did great. If it were just a whole card, the lowest grade with even a modicum of eye appeal, it would have more than doubled that hammer price at a bare minimum.
Can you post a screenshot of the card here ?
Just realized another, more succinct, way to put it is this:
That trimmed-on-all-sides #181 basically represents the lowest end of the signed Goudey Ruth market. So when "entry level" on a card is 100k all-in, that is heavy duty.
It also speaks volumes as to how the presence of a signature enhances the desirability and value of a card, because unsigned that card struggles to hit 5k. Essentially 20x just for the presence of the auto. Of course there is no formula whatsoever one should extrapolate from that; it just speaks to how the auto takes something that was not impressive by itself and transforms it into a rare and extremely valuable piece.
Again it all comes back to the population data. Take the 1953 Topps Mantle for example. 47 signed. That is half the population of PSA 8s. Basically twice as rare as a PSA 8, and the PSA 8s are selling around 100k now. Of the 47 signed examples, almost half have serious eye appeal problems and half of the remainder are locked away in collections (I know of 8 personally locked away). So the effective pop of desirable examples is extremely low, creating great scarcity. And that is one of the "higher pop" signed 50s Mantle cards. In fact it may be the highest, would have to go back and check, but it is up there.
A friend just bought a signed 53T Mays. I was thinking to myself, how often have I even seen a signed 53T Mays? That rarity will pay off enormously from a sheer investment standpoint, down the line. Same with a Ryan RC. I see lots of Ryan RCs. I see few centered. I see even fewer centered and signed. In fact I have only come across three such specimens. If the 9s are 100k, they have basically gone interstellar. It then only becomes a matter of time before both the prettiest 8s and the prettiest signed examples become targeted, acquired, locked into collections, scarce, and thus more valuable than they are today.
A signed card is a card the athlete handled himself. I wonder if Babe Ruth’s finger print was still on uncle Jimmy’s Goudey.
A card is simply something that was cut in a factory and sat in a collection. Your cards got up close and personal with the athlete himself. Much, much better for my tastes.
Some aspects of our hobby just take time to ripen or mature. I remember when I acquired two Gehrig rookies. I made several threads on here and Net54 back then, decade+ ago, wondering why the card was so slept on. Well, cut to today, the 3s I sold for 17k and 8k are now 300k, LOL.
Same for centering. There was a time when some thought paying a premium for a centered card was crazy, let alone a huge premium. But many who spent hours if not years shopping knew: the centered examples were very rare. That just wasn't quantified or stated on the label, and most people out there are lazy in the sense that they want to be told what to think by the grading company sticker only. The most common nature is reductive; many wanted to simply think Grade X+1 is better and more valuable than Grade X. Well, once again, cut to today, when every week at every major auction, we see 3s outsell 4s and 5s, etc. We see huge premiums for eye appeal and centering. It began with only a relative handful of collectors doing it because they acted on the beauty their eyes saw, then PWCC picked up on it with their stickers, and now we've jumped the shark with some guys paying a guy named Baker to put stickers on their slabs to denote what any savvy collector can see plain as day with their own eyes.
And the same dynamic is playing out right now with signed cards. The Uncle Jimmy Auction let the cat out of the bag, and now when the good signed vintage surfaces it is hotly contested. I remember I sold some beloved cards from my collection because I wanted to grab a signed 51B Mick when they jumped up to 40k a piece no matter the eye appeal. By the time I had the warchest for one ready, the next one sold for 200k, and now a 3 with a signature just went 130k. I got pantsed on that move, LOL— now the cards I sold back then I want back, and they are also dried up and triple what I sold them for LOL. Them's the breaks, as they say. At least I managed to get the D304 Cobb back right before 1s shot up to 20k+!
If feasible it’s imperative to stick with your quality pieces. In this thin market they are irreplaceable.
Funny you say that, was just at the bank spending time with my cards. Was considering making a move with some of them for a new piece.
No longer. Really have to spend time with them in hand and think stuff though sometimes. Helps gain clarity.
The centering is fantastic along with the signatures. Based on my preferences the way I like my cards, the only two there I would consider letting go are the 53 Bowman and 57 Topps.
I feel that 54 Bowman is absolutely tremendous. Not sure I would trade uncle Jimmy his Ruth for that one.
Thanks for sharing.
My three favorites based on eye appeal alone. Nothing else.
1- 54 Bowman
2. 51 Bowman
3. 52 Topps
Your top three ?
Honest answer is it is impossible for me to choose 3. It'd be like choosing among one's kids LOL. The only one that has to rise above for me if the house was on fire is the 52T, because it has provenance tracing it to its original pack, with an audio interview of its original pack puller who owned it before me. So that being so insane in today's card world, I know I would have to put that #1. Plus so few 52T's are centered like that. Even the 8s that hit auction are not centered. So I wish I could pick 3 but that is the true answer from the heart.
I love the 58.
Agreed. Provenance is a wonderful and often overlooked aspect of our hobby.
A 51 Bowman would just sparkle with a blue thin sharpie auto lavishing it. Have any pics of one ?
If it does exist, then that card centered and signed would be exquisite.
I notice Mantle tries to not sign over his face. Super move.
Mantle was one of the best signers in MLB history when it came to auto placement. He spaced and placed them VERY well.