Why does the 52 Topps Mantle trump the 51 Bowman

Goldenage · April 22, 2022 5:17AM

Both are very nice cards.

Ironmanfan · April 22, 2022 5:25AM

b/c it's Topps IMO

IMF

scmavl · April 22, 2022 8:22AM

Yep, because Topps set the new standard with the larger cards. Also the lore around the Hi series being dumped in the ocean adds the mystique needed to make it a classic. Lastly, just by a quick look at the PSA pop report there are 35% more 51 Bowmans than 52 Topps.

scmavl · April 22, 2022 8:23AM

(But I do think the '51B is a much more beautiful card)

brad31 · April 22, 2022 9:03AM

No idea. Think both the ‘51 Mantle and the ‘52 Mathews (which is a single printed rookie from the same series with half the print run of the double printed Mantle) should be higher than the ‘52 Mantle. Also do not understand why so many in the hobby call it a Mantle Rookie when it is a 2nd year card.

UlyssesExtravaganza · April 22, 2022 9:09AM

Was going to say the ocean too.

DM23HOF · April 22, 2022 10:15AM

The cards are not in competition with one another.

Both are very highly desirable and must-haves for many postwar baseball card collectors.

The 52T has over decades acquired a certain aura and status because of it being “the” card in that watershed set. But anyone who gets into cards inevitably also sees the rookie card from 51B as a hugely important— and pretty— sportscard.

1951WheatiesPremium · April 22, 2022 10:27AM

When I was a kid growing up in my area of NYC, my friends and I talked of the “four” Mantle rookies. It was 1952 Topps, 1951 Bowman, 1952 Berk Ross and the (pre internet) rarely seen 1951 Wheaties Premium. I think they were ordered by desirability but it was always that order. And always 1952 Topps first; I think in some parts because of the high numbers story, that it is considered the seminal Topps offering, the majestic look and pose and perhaps because 1952 was when Mickey stepped out of DiMaggio’s shadow and into centerfield. The Berk Ross is a beautiful doppelgänger for the 1951 Bowman and another of those exceptional cards from the nineteen fifties: a decade that produced some incredible art in the form of baseball cards.

1948_Swell_Robinson · April 22, 2022 11:31AM

@scmavl said:
Yep, because Topps set the new standard with the larger cards. Also the lore around the Hi series being dumped in the ocean adds the mystique needed to make it a classic. Lastly, just by a quick look at the PSA pop report there are 35% more 51 Bowmans than 52 Topps.

The population of each card explains it to a degree as the 1952 Topps Mantle is less plentiful. The lore explains most of the rest and has catapulted that card into its own orbit..

That doesn't mean the 1951 Bowman won't pick up more steam. Like the poster says above, they aren't in competition with each other. Two tremendous cards.

addicted2ebay · April 22, 2022 5:09PM

It’s a beautiful card like the 51 but there is almost 2,000 of them psa graded. the 52 berk Ross is a early mantle card with a super low pop I like best myself.

mintonlypls · April 22, 2022 8:46PM

I like the 1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle. First...it is the first photographic card of Mick rather than an artist illustration from a photo and it is the first color production set ever produced. Also...it is the most clean design possible without even the player's name on the front of the card. The follow through swing of a very young Mick coupled with a blue sky in the background makes for a classic, beautiful card.

This card is very much on my want list!

Goldenage · April 23, 2022 5:51AM

@mintonlypls said:
I like the 1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle. First...it is the first photographic card of Mick rather than an artist illustration and it is the first color production set ever produced. Also...it is the most clean design possible without even the player's name on the front of the card. The follow through swing of a very young Mick coupled with a blue sky in the background makes for a classic, beautiful card.

This card is very much on my want list!

This is very insightful. Never heard or thought of this before.

1951WheatiesPremium · April 23, 2022 7:44AM

@Goldenage said:

@mintonlypls said:
I like the 1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle. First...it is the first photographic card of Mick rather than an artist illustration and it is the first color production set ever produced. Also...it is the most clean design possible without even the player's name on the front of the card. The follow through swing of a very young Mick coupled with a blue sky in the background makes for a classic, beautiful card.

This card is very much on my want list!

This is very insightful. Never heard or thought of this before.

This one is a photo, too, 5x7 in size…

…though it is most definitely not a traditional card.

@mintonlypls - great call on the ‘53 Bowman. Mickey sure had a lot of nice looking cards over his career.

Goldenage · April 23, 2022 7:59AM

Thanks WP.

So why do people prefer paintings of Mickey instead of real photos ? Or they just love everything Mickey ?

I guess all Mattingly fans would have to have both of these too.

1948_Swell_Robinson · April 23, 2022 8:37AM

The 1951 Bowman and other cards like that from the era do come from an actual photo so it isn't completely an artist rendition.
This is the original photo used for 1951 Bowman and again for 1953 Topps.

The rest of the card is artist rendition and is a mini piece of artwork.

countdouglas · April 23, 2022 8:54AM

Goldenage · April 23, 2022 9:04AM

So why couldn’t they just use the actual photo Trying to reach kids to buy gum with artwork ? Licensing ?

countdouglas · April 23, 2022 9:20AM

@Goldenage said:
So why couldn’t they just use the actual photo Trying to reach kids to buy gum with artwork ? Licensing ?

https://www.psacard.com/articles/articleview/10365/new-era-begins-elements-make-1952-topps-baseball-card-set-most-iconic-postwar-age

1951WheatiesPremium · April 23, 2022 3:43PM

@Goldenage said:
Thanks WP.

So why do people prefer paintings of Mickey instead of real photos ? Or they just love everything Mickey ?

I guess all Mattingly fans would have to have both of these too.

Real photos are fun, too! 😂

But, yes, everything Mickey! 😉

1948_Swell_Robinson · April 23, 2022 4:27PM

The Bowman cards and early top cards are absolute beautiful pieces even though they aren't photos. Some of the 1920's strip cards are a little different story. I was going to buy this Cobb just because it looks like he was a character from the movie IT. The strip cards definitely have character though. That is part of the beauty of baseball cards as they provide such a wide variety of aesthetics.

BLUEJAYWAY · April 23, 2022 9:52PM

Always liked the 53 Topps best.

daltex · April 25, 2022 2:13AM

@scmavl said:
Yep, because Topps set the new standard with the larger cards. Also the lore around the Hi series being dumped in the ocean adds the mystique needed to make it a classic. Lastly, just by a quick look at the PSA pop report there are 35% more 51 Bowmans than 52 Topps.

Of course the '52 was far more desired long before anyone had ever heard of PSA (or before there was reliable population information).

1951WheatiesPremium · April 25, 2022 2:59AM

@Goldenage

I believe some of it comes down to feasibility and technology - the ability to get a fresh photograph of every player was probably not as easy or cost effective for a bubble gum company as paying a few artists to paint the images on the cards from existing photos. The success of the cards lead to greater investment in the products and competition drove innovation. Topps buys Bowman in 1956 and in 1957 the Topps Company adds text to the 1953 Bowman design setting a new standard with both size and photo use that endures to the present.

You also asked why want art cards? Many player collectors want ‘the run’ which is all base cards from rookie to retirement. For the legends of the 1950s, you can bounce around a bit from 1950-1955 but that era features lots of artwork as opposed to photographs on many offerings. There wasn’t the choices you have today.

You probably already know this: Mickey Mantle has no Topps cards in 1954 (sort of?*) and no Topps in 1955 but a Bowman for each, due to an exclusive contract signed with Bowman by Mickey; he wasn’t the only one. Stan Musial’s first Topps card is his 1958 All Star and first base card is 1959!

*The 1954 Topps Sports Illustrated card was designed by Topps but never produced…

scmavl · April 25, 2022 12:35PM

@daltex said:

@scmavl said:
Yep, because Topps set the new standard with the larger cards. Also the lore around the Hi series being dumped in the ocean adds the mystique needed to make it a classic. Lastly, just by a quick look at the PSA pop report there are 35% more 51 Bowmans than 52 Topps.

Of course the '52 was far more desired long before anyone had ever heard of PSA (or before there was reliable population information).

Oh, definitely. The '52 was a "thing" when I started collecting in the late 80s. However I think the vintage reprint inserts in 1989 Bowman endeared some of those early Bowman cards to kids in that era (like me). That was the first time I'd seen the '51 Mantle, but the '52T was just one of those cards you'd ALWAYS seen. Both truly iconic.

1951WheatiesPremium · April 25, 2022 12:55PM

@Goldenage

By the way, of the three actual photos I posted above, the ‘Drag Bunt’ photo was basically because of the 1954 Topps Sports Illustrated Mickey Mantle card: I bought it a day after it was posted when I made the connection that it is, in fact, the exact photograph used for the “action” portion of that card!

(See above 😉)

1951WheatiesPremium · April 25, 2022 1:10PM

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Always liked the 53 Topps best.

It’s gorgeous, yes. Here’s mine in its raw days…

53BKid · April 26, 2022 6:31AM

S + D = $

Supply
'52 Topps high numbered cards have always brought premiums, as the company dumped their excess production late that year in the ocean. So, the supply side on the Mantle has always been less plentiful.

The universe of PSA graded '52 Topps Mantles is 1,826 compared with 2,461 '51 Bowmans. There are more than a third more graded '51 Bowmans.

Demand
As far as desirability, the '52 Topps set is much more widely collected than the '51 Bowmans.

There are 318 '52 Topps Registry Sets, 102 of which have more than 50% complete, and 28 fully completed, whereas there are only 107 '51 Bowman Registry Sets, 35 of which have more than 50% complete, and 14 fully completed.

The differences in the cards' aesthetics also plays a significant factor.

Add these factors together, along with the hype as the '52 Topps Mantle repeatedly establishes record prices over decades, and its easy to understand why the card is the King for post-WWII issues.

Goldenage · April 26, 2022 12:41PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Always liked the 53 Topps best.

It’s gorgeous, yes. Here’s mine in its raw days…

Do you ever see this salesman sample around ?

1951WheatiesPremium · April 26, 2022 12:56PM

@Goldenage said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Always liked the 53 Topps best.

It’s gorgeous, yes. Here’s mine in its raw days…

Do you ever see this salesman sample around ?

No! I wish I did! That’s a beauty!

Trade me!

Goldenage · April 26, 2022 12:58PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Goldenage said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Always liked the 53 Topps best.

It’s gorgeous, yes. Here’s mine in its raw days…

Do you ever see this salesman sample around ?

No! I wish I did! That’s a beauty!

Trade me!

I’d give it to you if I owned it. Sorry

Why does the 52 Topps Mantle trump the 51 Bowman

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