1921 Morgan--Wide reeding

logger7

Coin World had an article on these recently, how rare are they?
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1921-1-morgan-wide-reeding-top-100/133969

cmerlo1

I used to buy these when I found them. After selling some, I learned that they command little or no premium, even when certified as such. The exception is this one, which is rare and valuable:

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1921-P_VAM-44

logger7

The PCGS pricing looks impressive from time to time on these but it may be due to other varieties too.

Coin World article is April 25, page 34.

DennisH

I'm a fan of Wide Reeding 1921-Ps. But then again, I'm a fan of 1921-Ps in general. WRs are scarce in general, although not as scarce as the pops suggest, and are very scarce above MS63. Here are some numbers to consider, per the PCGS Pop Report just now:
– Total 1921-Ps graded by PCGS (including PLs and DMPLs) -- 117,819
– Total 1921-P WRs graded by PCGS (including PLs; there are no DMPLs) -- 345
– Finest WRs graded by PCGS -- two MS65+ (and eight MS65s)
– Total population of WRs in PL graded by PCGS -- 4 (MS62-MS63-MS63-MS64)

LanceNewmanOCC

@DennisH said:
I'm a fan of Wide Reeding 1921-Ps. But then again, I'm a fan of 1921-Ps in general. WRs are scarce in general, although not as scarce as the pops suggest, and are very scarce above MS63. Here are some numbers to consider, per the PCGS Pop

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do you think anacs/icg pops would be more reflective of some of the WR coins out there? i am pretty sure VSS doesn't post pops although they would probably be skewed quite a bit just like the TPGs. perhaps this is just one of those coins someone needs to know the top 4-6 places to look. i bet the vam registry has a nice handful of them. i think i lost my password and login AGAIN so i'm not able to check at this time.

DennisH

ANACS would be, since they also attribute WRs by VAM number, while PCGS only does a generic WR attribution. NGC seems to be attributing them by VAM, but not always correctly. There are 14 different WR VAMs – six that have an A variant (die beveling from the denticles above ST and/or OF), and VAMs 4 and 44 that do not. VAM 44, BTW, is the 800-lb gorilla of the WR set. No, make that 1,600-lb. Or maybe 3,200-lb. Only a handful are known and they are never available.

LanceNewmanOCC

@DennisH said:
VAM 44, BTW, is the 800-lb gorilla of the WR set. No, make that 1,600-lb. Or maybe 3,200-lb. Only a handful are known and > they are never available.

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i have looked quite a bit and it has sent me away with my tail between my legs, along with several others...

ricko

Any pictures of the 'wide reeding'?? I looked at the links and there were none. Checked the CPG and it is not listed. Cheers, RickO

Namvet69

My thoughts as well. I'd like to know what to look for. Thanks Roy

logger7

The PCGS coinfacts page which I linked takes you to a bunch of pictures, you could click on varieties.

LanceNewmanOCC

@ricko @Namvet69

here is one of them.

messydesk

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@DennisH said:
I'm a fan of Wide Reeding 1921-Ps. But then again, I'm a fan of 1921-Ps in general. WRs are scarce in general, although not as scarce as the pops suggest, and are very scarce above MS63. Here are some numbers to consider, per the PCGS Pop

.
do you think anacs/icg pops would be more reflective of some of the WR coins out there? i am pretty sure VSS doesn't post pops although they would probably be skewed quite a bit just like the TPGs. perhaps this is just one of those coins someone needs to know the top 4-6 places to look. i bet the vam registry has a nice handful of them. i think i lost my password and login AGAIN so i'm not able to check at this time.

I don't post pops, but can look them up, and I don't have a breakdown by grade. I expect they'd show that they're all about the same rarity except for the VAM 44. I agree with Dennis that higher grade wide-reeds are far less common that you'd think. Also, if you can find one in PL, you buy it.

ricko

@LanceNewmanOCC ... Thank you, that was a big help. Now I need to dig out my 1921 Morgan and check. Likely will not be WR, but need to know. Cheers, RickO

DennisH

@Namvet69 said:
My thoughts as well. I'd like to know what to look for. Thanks Roy

Here's a photo that not only shows what a wide reeding looks like (3rd coin from the bottom), but it also illustrates how much visual variation there can be among normal reeding coins:

And I thought I recognized that Coinfacts image... it's my VAM 29A.

messydesk

@ricko said:
@LanceNewmanOCC ... Thank you, that was a big help. Now I need to dig out my 1921 Morgan and check. Likely will not be WR, but need to know. Cheers, RickO

There are 150 denticles on either side of the Morgan dollar. The wide-reed collar has 157 reeds and the normal one for 1921 has 189. A quick and dirty way if you don't have a comparison coin is to see if the reeds are spaced almost the same as the denticles. If they are, it's a wide-reed.

Namvet69

Thanks for the pics and explanation. I can definitely appreciate the WR. I also downloaded an excellent paper from SSDC on WR by Ash Harrison. Great VAM markers and pics are gonna make this search extra fun for me. Peace Roy

LanceNewmanOCC

@Namvet69 said:
Thanks for the pics and explanation. I can definitely appreciate the WR. I also downloaded an excellent paper from SSDC on WR by Ash Harrison. Great VAM markers and pics are gonna make this search extra fun for me. Peace Roy

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if you get into reeding issues and morgans, there are other years as well.