eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@amwldcoin said:
As long as a dick doesn't report your listing you can get away with showing pictures of non-approved slabs. I do it all the time but don't list the coin as graded, or use the slab picture as the primary picture. Also the only coins of this type I list are nice accurately graded coins anyway. I just think it's a shame to toss the protection and don't know how a buyer would react if they thought they were getting a raw coin and say a PCI slabbed coin showed up!
I have sold several PCI slabbed coins with slab visible. I just describe it as a "holdered by third world grading service" and give my own (non-numeric) grade opinion. I guess no "dicks" have reported me yet
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
I like this idea. This is what Airbnb does. I think the window for leaving feedback should be however long the return period is. Maybe even ten days after that period ends.
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
I like this idea. This is what Airbnb does. I think the window for leaving feedback should be however long the return period is. Maybe even ten days after that period ends.
I just picked 10 days as an example. It can be one month or any other fixed time limit. The idea is to give both parties to the transaction an opportunity to leave honest feedback without fear of retaliation from the other party.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
"Many"? I doubt that. Some did, but it was a small minority. In all my time buying there, I never encountered a single seller who did so. As far as a seller not posting feedback until after the buyer does, that's entirely within eBay policy. In fact, eBay has a feature that automates it for sellers. And for any buyer who was worried about feedback extortion (however unlikely), all he had to do was look at the seller's feedback record and avoid the few who practiced it.
The reason for a return is irrelevant. Proof positive eBay is the safest place to be for buyers. And all that at fees that are way under other distribution channels.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
@AMRC said:
The reason for a return is irrelevant. Proof positive eBay is the safest place to be for buyers. And all that at fees that are way under other distribution channels.
@vplite99 said:
eBay is always an adventure, but find a venue that gives you that many eyeballs.
Exactly. Ebay is CHEAP as a distribution channel with near zero cost of entry, easy access to payment processing, built in buyer and seller protections and a poll of millions of eyeballs. Anyone who thinks this is easy to reproduce much less top knows nothing about retail.
Tax season often puts a damper on numismatics, there was a long line at the local post office on Monday, tax day, with people sending off their returns via certified, which I understand would largely be extensions.
@AMRC said:
The reason for a return is irrelevant. Proof positive eBay is the safest place to be for buyers. And all that at fees that are way under other distribution channels.
Actually, I agree.
Now who am I going to fight with? :-)
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
@AMRC said:
The reason for a return is irrelevant. Proof positive eBay is the safest place to be for buyers. And all that at fees that are way under other distribution channels.
Actually, I agree.
Now who am I going to fight with? :-)
Lol. I'm sure there's somebody... especially if you say something positive about eBay...or CAC.
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
The whole "you go first" thing was stupid. Feedback means nothing to a buyer as long as the ability to snipe exists.
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
The whole "you go first" thing was stupid. Feedback means nothing to a buyer as long as the ability to snipe exists.
Why? You can snipe but I don't have to sell to you if you have crappy feedback. You used to have the ability to block bidders below a certain threshold.
@MarkKelley said:
I am in the middle of a return at this moment where I sold 2000 S-mint wheat cents. The buyer received them, searched them, then asked to return them because he didn't find the key dates he needed. EBay approved his request. I must refund his money (with shipping) and pay to have him return them to me. You're right: some people have no shame.
It would appear that a lot of them also work at eBay and PayPal.
@CoinConsign said:
I once had a PCGS MS64 toned Morgan get returned on day 28 of 30 day returns. It came back in a NGC MS63 holder.
Some people have no shame lol.
You should have told eBay that you got a "different" coin back and the buyer is trying to scam you.
He got the same coin back. Unless he said that it had to be in the original older, he has no argument.
@CoinConsign said:
I once had a PCGS MS64 toned Morgan get returned on day 28 of 30 day returns. It came back in a NGC MS63 holder.
Some people have no shame lol.
You should have told eBay that you got a "different" coin back and the buyer is trying to scam you.
He got the same coin back. Unless he said that it had to be in the original older, he has no argument.
Fascinating. 🧐. Does that mean if they cracked out the coin, don’t matter. Might bring into question how you verify all this but 🤨🙀🦫
@logger7 said:
Tax season often puts a damper on numismatics, there was a long line at the local post office on Monday, tax day, with people sending off their returns via certified, which I understand would largely be extensions.
Smart filers just print a label and get free tracking. Certified offers no assurance of security or delivery. Not worth the long wait in line.
@CoinConsign said:
I once had a PCGS MS64 toned Morgan get returned on day 28 of 30 day returns. It came back in a NGC MS63 holder.
Some people have no shame lol.
You should have told eBay that you got a "different" coin back and the buyer is trying to scam you.
He got the same coin back. Unless he said that it had to be in the original older, he has no argument.
Fascinating. 🧐. Does that mean if they cracked out the coin, don’t matter. Might bring into question how you verify all this but 🤨🙀🦫
Technically the seller got his coin back, but not the same way it went out which really sucks. I don't think that's right, but eBay does. I suppose it beats not getting it back at all. One needs to specify that it has to be in the same holder/packaging as it was when sent out. Have to cover your bases every way imaginable.
eBay needs to retain some knowledgeable arbitrators for cases like this, but since that likely adds more to cost and overhead instead of the bottom line probably isn't going to happen..
Some kind of trust exchange centers need to be set up or trusted dealers nationwide. Where you pay, view item and decide in the same place. The post office could start up such an atmosphere to safeguard from fraudulent claims of lost packages. But such a system will never be set up because there are just too many crooks, thieves amongst us in every faction of life. Not enough trustworthy folks around anymore. From crimes committed to low bail and quick release. Societies in the larger cities, the crooks rule! And may they all burn in hell!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@leothelyon said:
Some kind of trust exchange centers need to be set up or trusted dealers nationwide. Where you pay, view item and decide in the same place. The post office could start up such an atmosphere to safeguard from fraudulent claims of lost packages. But such a system will never be set up because there are just too many crooks, thieves amongst us in every faction of life. Not enough trustworthy folks around anymore. From crimes committed to low bail and quick release. Societies in the larger cities, the crooks rule! And may they all burn in hell!
Leo
Actually, many police stations or sheriff's offices have places set aside for such transactions. It is not very useful, however, if the sender is in CA and the buyer is in NY.
For there to be such a beget set up to receive packages and facilitate exchange would simply increase cost. Such a service would not be free.
@leothelyon said:
The post office could start up such an atmosphere to safeguard from fraudulent claims of lost packages.
Packages already have tracking. If they're shown scanned as delivered, claims of loss won't be accepted and if they're not scanned as delivered, claims of loss aren't fraudulent.
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
The whole "you go first" thing was stupid. Feedback means nothing to a buyer as long as the ability to snipe exists.
Why? You can snipe but I don't have to sell to you if you have crappy feedback. You used to have the ability to block bidders below a certain threshold.
My point is that if they snipe you can't see their FB until after they've already bid and won...thus feedback given to a buyer is meaningless (even if sellers were once again allowed to leave honest feedback about a transaction). And yes you can decline to sell but that can lead to a case being filed and a strike against you.
@CaptHenway said:
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
The whole "you go first" thing was stupid. Feedback means nothing to a buyer as long as the ability to snipe exists.
Why? You can snipe but I don't have to sell to you if you have crappy feedback. You used to have the ability to block bidders below a certain threshold.
My point is that if they snipe you can't see their FB until after they've already bid and won...thus feedback given to a buyer is meaningless (even if sellers were once again allowed to leave honest feedback about a transaction). And yes you can decline to sell but that can lead to a case being filed and a strike against you.
Sure, but if you won my auction for $1000 gold coin and I look at your feedback and you have 25 negative feedbacks as a buyer (and I'd also like to know your return history) then I would gladly take the strike. 99% of buyers are good buyers. Why would I waste time and possibly money dealing with bad buyers?
I offer free returns because there is no way to not have a return option due to SNAD and chargebacks. However, if you buy something from me for the first time and return it, you are automatically blocked. Why? Because returns have a cost. So, if you had horrible feedback and I knew it up front, I would also choose to not take the chance.
My point is that if they snipe you can't see their FB until after they've already bid and won...thus feedback given to a buyer is meaningless (even if sellers were once again allowed to leave honest feedback about a transaction). And yes you can decline to sell but that can lead to a case being filed and a strike against you.
Sure, but if you won my auction for $1000 gold coin and I look at your feedback and you have 25 negative feedbacks as a buyer (and I'd also like to know your return history) then I would gladly take the strike. 99% of buyers are good buyers. Why would I waste time and possibly money dealing with bad buyers?
I offer free returns because there is no way to not have a return option due to SNAD and chargebacks. However, if you buy something from me for the first time and return it, you are automatically blocked. Why? Because returns have a cost. So, if you had horrible feedback and I knew it up front, I would also choose to not take the chance.
You seem to be debating against a point I wasn't trying to make. You have every right to decline to honor the sale, and if you ca find some sort of red flag you should...but all buyers all have 100% positive feedback now, because sellers can only leave a positive or nothing at all... so you have no clue who you're dealing with (unless you want to play detective and search through tons of fbs, fb left for others etc. assuming they had an account that goes back to when sellers could leave neutrals or negs, to see if you can find anything. Don't know about you but I don't have that kind of time to do that on every bidder and winner).
My point is that if they snipe you can't see their FB until after they've already bid and won...thus feedback given to a buyer is meaningless (even if sellers were once again allowed to leave honest feedback about a transaction). And yes you can decline to sell but that can lead to a case being filed and a strike against you.
Sure, but if you won my auction for $1000 gold coin and I look at your feedback and you have 25 negative feedbacks as a buyer (and I'd also like to know your return history) then I would gladly take the strike. 99% of buyers are good buyers. Why would I waste time and possibly money dealing with bad buyers?
I offer free returns because there is no way to not have a return option due to SNAD and chargebacks. However, if you buy something from me for the first time and return it, you are automatically blocked. Why? Because returns have a cost. So, if you had horrible feedback and I knew it up front, I would also choose to not take the chance.
You seem to be debating against a point I wasn't trying to make. You have every right to decline to honor the sale, and if you ca find some sort of red flag you should...but all buyers all have 100% positive feedback now, because sellers can only leave a positive or nothing at all... so you have no clue who you're dealing with (unless you want to play detective and search through tons of fbs, fb left for others etc. assuming they had an account that goes back to when sellers could leave neutrals or negs, to see if you can find anything. Don't know about you but I don't have that kind of time to do that on every bidder and winner).
I'm only arguing against your comment that I would take a hit if I refuse. I'm just pointing out that it would be worth it.
Comments
After reading through this thread I've come to the general conclusion that People suck...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
That’s a good one alright😂
eBay became useless when it stopped allowing sellers to leave feedback on buyers.
Before that change, the feedback system was useless since many sellers practiced what was called "feedback extortion". They would post that their feedback wouldn't be made until AFTER the buyer left feedback. Some even said their feedback would be "in-kind". People having a bad experience with a bad seller were afraid to leave any feedback because they knew the bad seller would retaliate with a negative.
I proposed a solution here. Both the seller and buyer would have 10 days to leave whatever feedback they wanted to leave. This feedback would be hidden until both the seller and the buyer left feedback and then it would become unhidden for all to see. If any party didn't leave feedback after 10 days, any feedback left would become unhidden and it would be too late for the person who didn't to leave any.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have sold several PCI slabbed coins with slab visible. I just describe it as a "holdered by third world grading service" and give my own (non-numeric) grade opinion. I guess no "dicks" have reported me yet
I like this idea. This is what Airbnb does. I think the window for leaving feedback should be however long the return period is. Maybe even ten days after that period ends.
I just picked 10 days as an example. It can be one month or any other fixed time limit. The idea is to give both parties to the transaction an opportunity to leave honest feedback without fear of retaliation from the other party.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Many"? I doubt that. Some did, but it was a small minority. In all my time buying there, I never encountered a single seller who did so. As far as a seller not posting feedback until after the buyer does, that's entirely within eBay policy. In fact, eBay has a feature that automates it for sellers. And for any buyer who was worried about feedback extortion (however unlikely), all he had to do was look at the seller's feedback record and avoid the few who practiced it.
A lot of whining over a very tiny problem.
The reason for a return is irrelevant. Proof positive eBay is the safest place to be for buyers. And all that at fees that are way under other distribution channels.
eBay is always an adventure, but find a venue that gives you that many eyeballs.
Actually, I agree.
Exactly. Ebay is CHEAP as a distribution channel with near zero cost of entry, easy access to payment processing, built in buyer and seller protections and a poll of millions of eyeballs. Anyone who thinks this is easy to reproduce much less top knows nothing about retail.
Tax season often puts a damper on numismatics, there was a long line at the local post office on Monday, tax day, with people sending off their returns via certified, which I understand would largely be extensions.
Now who am I going to fight with? :-)
Lol. I'm sure there's somebody... especially if you say something positive about eBay...or CAC.
The whole "you go first" thing was stupid. Feedback means nothing to a buyer as long as the ability to snipe exists.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Why? You can snipe but I don't have to sell to you if you have crappy feedback. You used to have the ability to block bidders below a certain threshold.
It would appear that a lot of them also work at eBay and PayPal.
He got the same coin back. Unless he said that it had to be in the original older, he has no argument.
Fascinating. 🧐. Does that mean if they cracked out the coin, don’t matter. Might bring into question how you verify all this but 🤨🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Smart filers just print a label and get free tracking. Certified offers no assurance of security or delivery. Not worth the long wait in line.
Technically the seller got his coin back, but not the same way it went out which really sucks. I don't think that's right, but eBay does. I suppose it beats not getting it back at all. One needs to specify that it has to be in the same holder/packaging as it was when sent out. Have to cover your bases every way imaginable.
eBay needs to retain some knowledgeable arbitrators for cases like this, but since that likely adds more to cost and overhead instead of the bottom line probably isn't going to happen..
Some kind of trust exchange centers need to be set up or trusted dealers nationwide. Where you pay, view item and decide in the same place. The post office could start up such an atmosphere to safeguard from fraudulent claims of lost packages. But such a system will never be set up because there are just too many crooks, thieves amongst us in every faction of life. Not enough trustworthy folks around anymore. From crimes committed to low bail and quick release. Societies in the larger cities, the crooks rule! And may they all burn in hell!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Well now 😳
Leo, you seem uncertain about how your feeling. 😉🙀🦫
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Actually, many police stations or sheriff's offices have places set aside for such transactions. It is not very useful, however, if the sender is in CA and the buyer is in NY.
For there to be such a beget set up to receive packages and facilitate exchange would simply increase cost. Such a service would not be free.
I got "buyer's remorse" once.... Ok, no problem.
Packages already have tracking. If they're shown scanned as delivered, claims of loss won't be accepted and if they're not scanned as delivered, claims of loss aren't fraudulent.
My point is that if they snipe you can't see their FB until after they've already bid and won...thus feedback given to a buyer is meaningless (even if sellers were once again allowed to leave honest feedback about a transaction). And yes you can decline to sell but that can lead to a case being filed and a strike against you.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Sure, but if you won my auction for $1000 gold coin and I look at your feedback and you have 25 negative feedbacks as a buyer (and I'd also like to know your return history) then I would gladly take the strike. 99% of buyers are good buyers. Why would I waste time and possibly money dealing with bad buyers?
I offer free returns because there is no way to not have a return option due to SNAD and chargebacks. However, if you buy something from me for the first time and return it, you are automatically blocked. Why? Because returns have a cost. So, if you had horrible feedback and I knew it up front, I would also choose to not take the chance.
You seem to be debating against a point I wasn't trying to make. You have every right to decline to honor the sale, and if you ca find some sort of red flag you should...but all buyers all have 100% positive feedback now, because sellers can only leave a positive or nothing at all... so you have no clue who you're dealing with (unless you want to play detective and search through tons of fbs, fb left for others etc. assuming they had an account that goes back to when sellers could leave neutrals or negs, to see if you can find anything. Don't know about you but I don't have that kind of time to do that on every bidder and winner).
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I'm only arguing against your comment that I would take a hit if I refuse. I'm just pointing out that it would be worth it.