A hole in my 1975 Lincoln. Is it a mint error ?
rodeo514
Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
appreciate the input.
4
rodeo514
Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
Comments
PMD
Yes, and quite valuable as such. I would suggest sending it in to PCGS for their quickest level of certification. You may be able to retire from this find.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Pmd
PMD. Not an error
Pls pls pls read up on the minting process.
There is no way that damage occurred at the mint. The distortion to the coin is consistent with post mint damage.
PS - as a kid I abused coins with all sorts of tools. It was very educational and I highly recommend it.
Oh my goodness. To think this is not a minting error makes me sad. It really looks machine done.
what is the rockwell test that is similar to a punch like this?
Even of that was a mint error, who would want it?
Is it time to add a special new forum here for these guys? They seem much happier answering their own questions...😅
Well isn't this a forum of peers to discuss U.S. Coins? geez why be rude about it. I would think you would want to welcome the discussion. Thanks bud
Okay, we all had to start somewhere in this hobby, and at that time we didn't know very much about the hobby, and what we thought we knew was still yet questionable
So, sometimes when I'm ask for assistance I have to go back to those roots!
The mint does make errors, that's well known, but their tooling and processes is high level, so when I see something like this type of damage I think of it as damaged (with intent) and in this case not likely an accident either.
The coin doesn't look to have been drilled, (there isn't anything used in the minting process to make holes in coins).
The back side (reverse exit) looks to have been possibly shot with a small caliber round nose projectile!
But that don't explain the somewhat square impression on the obverse, that may have more to do with an attempt of hammering or flatten out the reverse side?
On occasion I've seen old Wheat cents on ebay listed as an error coin that was obvious to me it was one I (someone) likely shot with a BB rifle, I've shot far more than enough Lincoln's to tell that a 177cal BB would fit perfect in the dent
In the case of your coin its more likely something that produced a good bit more energy than a standard BB gun.
So, this type of damage will always be PMD (Post Mint Mark Damage)
Hope this helps
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Thank you . What prompted me to ask, is that this is the second coin Ive found with a square marking on the back. I have to find the other one,and I guess I shouldn't post it here so that I dont get laughed at. UGH
ok well here it is anyway,let me know
@rodeo514
If you spend some time studying the minting process, you'll see that its absolutely obvious that something like that could not have come from the mint.
Here are some links to get you started
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=104&v=mqPvKxJXC_Y&feature=emb_title
https://www.usmint.gov/learn/production-process/die-making
Here is the other coin that I referenced
PMD. Once again, this can't occur during the minting process.
If you have an interest in errors and varieties, understanding the minting and die making processes are essential if you don't want to waste lots of time. There are many, many damaged coins in circulation
Here is a link that lists errors and explains how the occur. It's worth saving
https://www.error-ref.com
Oh I thought you meant something else.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Well, the impression on the second one is really round, but its not a mint error either.
their older brother's and 22LR rifles, my 74 year old older brother still has a piece of copper from a penny in one of his eye from stupid stuff to early in life. He wouldn't have done it on his own but he had some other yonger friends along for this adventure. The penny was found in the floorboard of our Mom's car, so we were all up to an old dump shooting anything that was cool to shoot, someone ask the question, if you laid that penny on top of the muzzle aimed upwards and fire the gun how far would the penny go into the air? It don't! it fragments everyone was looking right at the penny, everyone was injured with copper fragments, except me! I'm 10 year younger than my brother, and at the time a good bit shorter, so the penny fragments went over my head while everyone else was screaming & bleeding. True story!
Don't ask me how I know that 
and it looked just like two Lincolns that had been clamped in the vise!
Lots of thing can happen to a penny once it leaves mint and makes it into public circulation!
Like, kids and BB guns
Flea marketers will do anything to make a dime off a penny, they'll make an impression in them and try to glue some little something to them in hope of an impulse buyer.
Free Masons stamps their logo on them,
I have one that has the head of President Kennedy stamped on it, the year Kennedy was assassinated,
There are these jewellery craft-ers that makes all kinds of crazy items out of coins, copper pennies solder together very well.
I've seen penny ashtrays, cup holders and I know there are millions of failed attempts with these coins.
Then we can't forget about the people that has to know what a train does to a penny when its placed on a railroad track and train runs over it, I found out that a Nickel is a lot harder than a penny and the first few rail cars that's runs over it, it makes a HECK of a lot of noise, a penny it just kind of squeezes and the noise isn't to much more then a few clicks, the Nickel
I've shot a few dimes @ 100yrds testing the zero of my varmint rifle, never found the dime
Back in the day of fuse boxed I've heard tells of people finding shorts in house wiring back screwing the fuse for the shorted circuit in on top of a penny and then wait to see where the smoke comes from!
Then you have the DYI'ers, the copper penny (cent) has MANY uses around say a 20 ton shop press, the penny being much softer than even low grade steel so the penny become a press tool between the ram of the press and the shaft, small axle, bearing, that's being pressed, so if the job at hand only needs say 500lbs of force to press in in place the penny ends up with a nice round impression, hey its still spendable, drop it back into your pocket and go on.
And if you don't have a press and most don't they (we) use a hammer, well that handy little piece of copper is just to available.
The list of things that the common US cent goes through after it leaves the mint is endless.
While the common or normal mint error's wouldn't make a very long list. So, person interested in mint error coins could do a DuckDuckGo search for US Mint Error Coins and then train their eye what to actually look for. And then its still good to keep in mind that most tiny little mint errors don't make a coin rare or highly valuable!
And ebay and like places are full of sellers claiming every dent, crease, ring, close to the rim "L", off color, even "No Mint Mark" as extremely RARE coins is just foolishness. People on ebay are now taken two pennies and clamping them together in a vise and selling them as Extremely Rare Double Die Mint errors! They look stupid, but one sold the other day $300.00
The people that buys these are NOT coin collectors at all! at best their hopping they can buy it at one auction site and relist it on another and double or triple their money.
The crazy-ness around everything mint errors these days has become a bit of a run away train and its bad for the hobby too.
Hope that helps.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Thank you for the reference material. There is a lot of reading there,and my full time job is not the coin business,so I was relying on you fine folks to describe what I am looking at and I guess PMD is a common thing. I appreciate the input. I figure better safe than sorry .
Thank you for that. I loved these stories,and it brings up memories of boys being boys back in the day. I was the youngest little sister int he bunch,so I wasn't really into all of those games, but sounds fun! I was hoping I had a lamination error of clash of some kind,but Im not that lucky I guess.
Well, real errors are out there, but the key is knowing what to ignore so you don't waste time on the worthless stuff. That's what the acquisition of knowledge is all about.
We all started in the same place but if you heed the advice of the experienced members here you will be able to skip over a lot of the learning curve. 😀
Made from some kind of metal punch being hit with a hammer. If you have a depression on one side and a protrusion of metal on the opposite side then that means the coin was struck/hammered with some type of metal object like a screwdriver/punch/iron rod, ect............
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
...The crazy-ness around everything mint errors these days has become a bit of a run away train...
... Well isn't this a forum of peers to discuss U.S. Coins?
I'm just the messenger
The Peers of the forum
Grow weary
Of all these rolls
Tracheostomy practice?
Yep! I wasn't talking about people on forums I was talking about the online auction houses like ebay, or itsy!
I daily scan (several times a day) newly listed 09SVDB's, & 14-D Lincoln's looking for phonies, well in doing so I see hundreds of listings claiming mint errors, that are not, in that market error coin listing have become a run away train so to speak.
Go back up in this thread and read the last LONG post I did, I'm trying to be as helpful and honest as possible in helping the member of the title post.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The runaway train will not stop on its own. Education is the only brake the train has. If young coin finders learn that if a cent looks like a car with tire studs ran over it in a parking lot 50 times, then it probably did as the Mint does not do that on purpose or by accident. There is so much more today offered for free on the net, it is unreal that so many can't look up most info that they need. They just need to be told where. But as long as there are videos telling everyone how many millions are in the errors in their pockets, forums like this one will just have to be the breaker of bubbles. Good luck in your endeavors.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
This is funny, in a post of mine above I referenced a Nickel getting ran over by a train which was MANY years ago, a life time ago for some people.
Well, I never really done anything special with that coin, but its been in different junk boxes, drawers, etc as I've moved through life its just had a way of following me, I'll be digging through some stuff and there is that train flattened Nickel.
Well, after my post I thought about the last place I remembered seeing it, guess what it was still there
The edges are angled (thinned down) sort of like the wheel on a pizza cutter (more like a cutting disc on a pipe cutter)
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I have seen cents ran over by trains but never a nickle. Thanks for sharing again!!
The coins you posted are nothing more than very obviously damaged cents.
@MarkW63 ... That nickel looks remarkably good for having been train squashed. I remember doing it with a cent.... never a nickel, that was a lot of money then....
Cheers, RickO
The sound of the first wheel made when it hit the nickel was pretty shocking, it wasn't anything like the click & squish of a penny.
The mechanic's shop I worked in (Forklift Shop) had a 100 ton press in it, Nickels didn't flatten out anything like other coins, plus they made impressions in the face of the steel disc that we pressed them in between.
Over the course of my life time I've put a hurting on a lot of US coins
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
So where do people auction off their coins these days? Seems like eBay has a bad Reputation and I get 0 views on my items!
Did @emeraldATV drop that out of his pocket? Is the OP related in any way
to @emeraldATV ? Inquiring minds........
Too late
I've seen so many ebay listing for worthless Lincoln cent that's it appalling!
Listings all over ebay where in the title they state the coin to be "Extremely Rare" mint error, so many so that if it was going on on a social media site it would be called "Trending"
Do a search for '1946 no mint mark Lincoln cent (or try Lincoln penny)' or a '1965 no mint mark Washington quarter'
1955-D ddo
'1943 rare no mint mark Lincoln cent'
People are creating new ebay accounts thinking they have rolls of extremely rare no mint mark Lincoln cents!
Its so bad now that every nick or scratch on a coin puts it in a class of a new ebay account and an extremely rare coin.
Lots of listings of Lincoln's with imaginary mint marks.
These practices have got so BAD for so long now that for even a beginner collector its laughable.
I've sent messages now to dozens of ebay sellers with these laughable listings, a few told me to mind my own business (very few) all most all of the responses were "I didn't know"
So, I fully understand some of the responses to your OP (Original Post) these people here has seen this nonsense in so many places and for so long that's it laughable. Many on here early on try to battle it, tried to inform the public, and for there efforts its only seems to have gotten worse, so what's left to do, laugh it off and I understand that.
There is still lots of merchandise moving through ebay, there are millions of people addicted to ebay shopping LoL!
So, the reason for your listings getting low number of views could be several things,
Type of product!
Title used to list items, (it needs to be done in a way that the wording would be used in a common search)
No images that show up as a thumbnail in the search list,
Maybe trying to sell an item that's thought to be valuable, that's not?
Most everything I've ever listed on ebay has SOLD! but I don't have an ebay store, I've just sold things from time to time that I had, or some item that was in my mother's estate when she passed away.
And its known that there are countless ebay sellers running scams on ebay, they're there for the purpose of ripping people off!!
After my mother passed last may of last year and I dealt with the selling side of ebay again I pretty much decided that I was likely to try and sell anything else on ebay, I still buy some stuff. I've had the same ebay account sense Feb 2000 that was back when you could send a money order for an item payment LoL!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Thanks for your convo.im sorry about your mom. I lost mine in Nov 19,just glad she didn't have to live through covid. I too have had same ebay account since early 2000s..records baseball cards,etc..now I just dabble ,but I do have these really cool coins.lots of untouch lincoln memorials..early Wheaties..like I listed a 1910,1912 etc penny but no views.i feel invisible..lol.so where else can I list? .
I signed up with heritage,but I don't want to spent thousands of dollars grading coins if no one is looking at them. Anyway thanks 😊 > @MarkW63 said:
I didn't think this auction was unreasonable
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1896-TO-1912-liberty-nickle-head-LOT-OF-39-COLLECTION-FIVE-CENT-PIECES-/325156454632?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
Was that your listing? Speaking very plainly: Nobody is looking at your listings because you are selling very common coins in low grades for prices that are multiples (in some case 10x or greater multiples) of what they are worth.
Have you compared your items to the actual sale prices of similar items that have already sold?
Looking at the completed listings, low-grade problem-free Liberty nickels are selling for about 75 cents each in quantity. Yours have problems, and you're asking a lot more.
You're selling a damaged circulated 1937 Buffalo nickel for $300 when it should be worth about 30 cents.
You're selling a 1914 Lincoln cent in good for $60, when many other examples are available for $3 or less.
You're selling a 1938 Lincoln cent for $20, when it's worth about 4 cents.
You may feel that your coins are cool. When other people disagree, it's not surprising that nobody is looking at your listings, sorry.
I would look to see what others have these priced at and be comparitive.As example i have some mint 1982 memorials ,and I see ms69 selling for 3 grand. Should I grade mine or sell them for 1500? That's the problem,is that I don't know what to charge because I don't know enough about the demand, the trends,etc..not trying to rip off, everything is best offer. When you look at what's completed items,its all lies.. they make it look like sonethi g sold when it was a
Only relisted.so frustrating.Trying to learn as I go. Thanks for letting me know.
A 38 lincoln worth only 4 cents? Wow
Your mint 1982 cents are not slabbed MS69 coins. That price is entirely irrelevant to your coins.
If you want to sell for that kind of money you will need to get them graded, which will be a real learning experience.
I looked at your auctions as well. The prices for most things are nonsensical. You must be comparing apples and oranges if you are comparing to sold items.
I don't think you are dishonest with your prices, just misinformed.
I have a dansco book 1909-1940 about half full.all key dates missing though. So I thought I'd list a few otherwise sell the whole book for 1 price.those wheat pennies were in there. Yes definitely not enough information
There are so many pie in the sky listings and items not sold..I think ebay is a waste of my time, and I need to learn more from communities that can help me
That's right. So look at the items that DID sell -- in similar condition and unslabbed -- and use those as your price comparison.
Do you know how to search the sold items on eBay?
Do you know how to grade coins yourself, even approximately? (Hint: https://www.pcgs.com/photograde)
Do you have a published price guide such as the Red Book, with a suggested retail price for each coin in each grade?
I see so many listings for coins on ebay where the people seem to think of an old coin much the same as a vintage lamp, or an antique.
Or every Wheat cent is rare and valuable because heck you rarely see them in change anymore, so their all rare, when in reality they're not, rare or odd today doesn't meant it was a very common coin when it was minted, meaning its still a common coin among collectors and hoards of Wheat cents.
I've contacted LOTs of ebay sellers and explained to them that if they were going to sell coins to get some coin book price guides, learn at list a little bit about condition, and not a details grade number either, just Good, Fine, EF, Uncirculated, etc...
Don't use someone else's listing titles either, there could be coin dealer added abbreviations used that if you don't know what it means isn't likely to apply to their coin.
don't follow the fake market trend of everything imperfection on a coin makes it a RARE example of a mint error!
Those coin price guides will give you a minted total for each years and each mint mark, the lower the mintage numbers leads to more value.
Most RAW average Lincoln cents don't really have much value if a person has this idea that an any date cent is a $5.00 or $10.00 coin, with no real price guide to reference, A totally brown, mid condition 1950's Lincoln with nearly one billion of them minted is really worthless for the most park, and can be bought in 50 coin rolls on ebay for $8.00 to $10.00 SHIPPED!
Keep in mind that if a person sells and clears $1.00 off a very common Cent, that is 100X its face value, that's a large mark up over face value.
So many people will come across a little stash of Wheat Cent in a jar or box from another family member and get the idea to create an ebay account thinking they have a fortune in treasure, but they have no IDEA what's common, how many was minted of anyone of them.
When I mother passed away she had nearly $30.00 in a Wheat cent hoard (she did have some 60's & 70's in with them) all RAW, none in exceptional condition, no key dates, no semi key dates, hundreds she had cleaned with what looked like a pencil eraser. I went through all them and there wasn't one keeper, had I spent weeks looking though them I'm sure I could have found a couple with some tiny min error.
I carefully rolled them into rolls and marked the rolls by decade, 1940's 1950's, 1960's, 1970's That was how Mom started to sort them, I folded the end flaps and clamped them until the glue dried, and took them to a bank and cash them in.
There wasn't a single coin in Mom's penny hoard that I could add to my collection!
Ebay & itsy has created a parallel universe coin market of worthless coins somehow being rare and valuable, but its not collectors or dealers that are THE ONES BUYING or SELLING the few that's gotten sold! it just some people that live in that parallel universe that has no knowledge of coins at all!
Here is just one example, and listing like this are ENDLESS!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224936525460?
Notice "Rare No Mint Mark" notice they're raw, notice how many they have listed!
Now look at this image and notice that no other us mint produced the quarter that year other than the Philly Mint and the Philly mint omits their mint mark for coins in that time period!
Look how many were minted of this coin?
People that are clueless about coins are somehow lead to believe that no mint mark coins that they have laying around all over the place is rare and valuable LoL!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I have a red book .I'll have to check out photography? Sorry what is stabbed?
Your questions and comments make it clear that you don’t yet know nearly enough to be listing coins for sale. That’s not a criticism, just a fact. Read up and learn, before trying to buy or sell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I strongly agree with both parts.
Good. If you want to learn, that's an excellent place to start.
What does the Red Book estimate as values for a 1938 Lincoln cent for in various grades? What is the grade of your 1938 Lincoln cent? Based on the estimated values and your estimated grade, what sort of price would you expect to sell yours for?
I believe its "Slabbed" and not "Stabbed"
Slabbed is a common term use to reference when a coin has been sent off to be professionally graded & authenticated. They come come back in sealed plastic encasement's (Slabs).
Also, its my understanding that when RAW coins are listed on ebay the seller isn't supposed to to give the coin what is called a "Details Grade" that a grade number that is reserved for use only by professional grading services, PCGS, NGC, etc....
The details grading is the a number assignment like, PF-65, PF-69, MS-63, the detail grade is suppose to only be used if the coin has been professionally graded and in its original slab (holder, or encasement).
Yes! a seller can state grades in the form of Good, VG, F, VF, EF, UNC (Uncirculated), Proof, etc... but without the detail numbers. But, that's really a self grading thing, so I think it much better to just provide good pictures of the obverse and reverse of the coin, and stay away from to much magnification, extra close on specific details of genuine key date coins.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Here is a slabbed coin, (professionally graded), its my coin!
Graded coins (professionally graded) are not classed as RAW coins, RAW just means it a coin that hasn't been professionally graded, hence RAW can't carry a genuine details grade.
So the coin below isn't a RAW coin, and so it carries a detail grade.
I have trouble getting decent images of slabbed coins, the plastic, reflections, scuffs on the encasement seems to photo better than the coin
Here is another one of mine that's graded (slabbed),
Here is a RAW proof I just got, the coin is a really nice one, the picture doesn't do it justice either, I think it would grade pretty high, but if I was to put it up for sell on fleabay, I would have to let the buyer self grade it, even though I would list it as a very nice proof, the buyer would have to guess the grade.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Not quite right.
Details grade refers to a tpg graded coin in a holder that says something like AU details, meaning the coin has the details of an AU but has problems (damage, cleaning...etc) that keep it from getting a numerical grade.
What you described above is actually called the numerical grade, and that is what you can't use on raw or 3rd world holdered coins on ebay.
For ebay purposes, 3rd world holder refers to any tpg other than PCGS, NGC, and ANACS.
Examples of details grade holders..
(Anacs gives numerical grades on their details holders. Pcgs and Ngc do not..)
Oh wow .that's great info and beautiful coins. That 37 isn't cleaned? Nice find..haha fleabay!!
Thanks for your help