Important Coin Case heard before the 8th Circuit court of appeals on 4-13-2022
Tomthecoinguy
Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭
Many of you are aware of the Draconian Minnesota Coin Bullion Dealer law. I filed a Federal lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of the law. Last year I won a partial victory in the district court, and the judge struck down a key provision of the law. We felt the District court judge should have thrown out the whole law, so we appealed to the 8th Circuit.
The court held a hearing today, and I am providing a link to the audio file for those interested.
media-oa.ca8.uscourts.gov/OAaudio/2022/4/212936.mp3
My lawyer thought the hearing went very well for us, especially since the judges were asking questions about the Remedy. In other words, if they find it unconstitutional do they strike down the whole law, or can they fix it in another way. He said whenever the judges start talking about the remedy, it is a good sign for the plaintiffs.
The key issue in the case, is if Minnesota can regulate a MN resident when they conduct a transaction totally outside of the state.
Comments
Excellent!!!! Coin legal beagles rule!! Tell us who your lawyer is so we can credit him, if you like. Extra-territoriality doctrine! And Dormant Commerce clause! These are heady and difficult constitutional issues. I had a dormant commerce clause case once at the 4th circuit. They are difficult matters, but I like the arguments a lot and I agree with them.
Tom
Good for you for getting involved and standing up for your rights.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Looked them up. Good lawyers and good firm. Gutsy to appeal a partial win. From the discussion and at a minimum, it appears that the statute is poorly drafted and should be stricken entirely. And I agree that your guy did well. Good luck.
https://www.mklaw.com/
Please keep us updated.
Tom
Thanks, I agree my lawyer is very good, he specializes in taking on the government. A couple years ago he even won a case at the Supreme court. He got a 100 year old MN law struck down, that regulated people's apparel at the voting booth.
We had a lot of discussion on if we should appeal our partial victory. We thought if the Government did not appeal, and we did it could result in the Government filing a cross-appeal, putting our earlier victory on risk. Inexplicably, the government decided not to cross-appeal. This means that all of our lower court wins are locked in, the appeal cannot undo any of our wins.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
Who are the 3 judges on the panel?
I love stuff like this. There are ways to get rid of idiotic laws, but it takes effort and someone with enough fire in their belly to see it through. Way to go!
It sounds like the state attorneys knows its a poorly written piece of legislation
And good for you tommy standing up and ponying up for your beliefs
Martin
👏
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I just wish, someday someone can do the same with eBay charging improper taxes.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Bobby E. Shepherd
L. Steven Grasz
Jonathan A. Kobes
Shepherd was appointed by George W. Bush, and Grasz and Kobes were Trump appointees.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
@Tomthecoinguy , any relation to @Tomthemailcarrier , another real nice guy?
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
@Tomthecoinguy .... Best of luck in your lawsuit... A very worthy cause. Please let us know when you win, so we can all join in the celebration. Cheers, RickO
They, like many states, have always regulated their residents by requiring them to declare and pay taxes on out of state purchases. A key issue for me is how can they legally regulate and force their law on me when I never step foot in the state. A question of jurisdiction.
Residents of many, if not all states, have always been required to report their own out of state purchases and to properly remit their home state sales tax. This is simply another instance (like 1099Ks) of requiring third parties to take up the slack where a taxing authority fails to enforce existing tax law.
Yes you are absolutely right, them regulating a none residents transaction outside the state is also a big part of this.
One of the reasons this case is a bigger deal than just about coins and just about this law, is because if the states arguments were to prevail it means a state can regulate their residents where ever they go in the world. For example, a State could regulate their residents gun purchases in another state. My lawyer said this could be a supreme court case, and this is coming from a lawyer who recent had another case before the supreme court.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
best of luck. Taking donations on a fund raising site?
No relation but I’m always glad to hear of another good Tom!
Well then, it's a good thing that @Tomthemailcarrier and @Tomthecoinguy are both a "good Tom" since there aren't any others like that on this board!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
There is not a big push for that right now, but may be a need in the near future. I appreciate those that contributed in the past. Right now my lawyers are on contingency, they get paid by the State when we win. Actually, the state even conceded that they owe us legal fees for our District court win. The amount will be determined when the case is resolved.
When we win in the 8th Circuit, I think one of the biggest areas of help we will need is getting the word out to the numismatic press, and hopefully we can get coverage in the MSM as well.
Join the fight against Minnesota's unjust coin dealer tax law.
Toot TOOT!