Best eBay rip in a while.

DelawareDoons

If you know, you know.

LanceNewmanOCC

lkenefic

ChrisH821

The centered dot, slant crossbar B reverse was also used on Philly coins too, wasn't it?

airplanenut

No, it's not a doubled die error.

Sorry, default response when I see a post with one zoomed in shot on a cent.

ricko

Looks like an authentic V.D.B. Cheers, RickO

DelawareDoons

@ChrisH821 said:
The centered dot, slant crossbar B reverse was also used on Philly coins too, wasn't it?

Yes, some. But it ruins the fun if I post the obverse.

JimTyler

Those obscure little anomalies never floated my boat but if you’re happy I’m happy.

braddick

Copy/pasted:

In August 1909, the two United States Mints began releasing the new 1909 Lincoln cent — some 3/4-million from San Francisco and 26 million from the Philadelphia Mint. By the end of the first week, Chief Mint Engraver Charles Barber ordered production halted, and all working dies with the initials "VDB" (Victor D. Brenner, the coin's designer) to be removed.

It was evident to me, many years later, as a serious collector of Lincoln cents, that many 1909 "no VDB" cents had abrasion marks on the lower reverse where the dies were tooled to remove the initials.
Several hundred dies that were used, and hundreds of others awaiting use were taken to the metal shop to have the initials removed. Later in the year, these dies were used to produce many of the new coins. In addition, new dies with no evidence of any initials came online and produced the bulk of the remaining 1909 coins.

I noted many years ago that many uncirculated 1910 cents also showed these same abrasion marks on the lower reverse.
I concluded that some 1909 dies which had their initials removed were put into service in 1910 — since they saw so little (or no) use in the first week of August 1909.
It was around 1964 that I concluded that it was possible that some 1910 cents might bear traces of the "VDB" initials if not carefully removed in 1909. I published an article to that effect in the Numismatic Association of Southern California's NASC Quarterly. At the time, no one had seriously explored the possibility, and indeed, no one had found any 1910 "VDB" cents.
It wasn't until 1985 that I found a 1910 cent in mint condition with traces of the "VDB." I sent it to Coin World. They returned it, uncertain if the marks were parts of the "VDB" or stray abrasion traces. No photograph was able to bring out the initial hints.

About 1995, Bill Fivaz (coauthor of "Cherrypickers' Guide to Rare Die Varieties") sent a certified matte proof 1910 cent to the Society of Lincoln Cent Collectors with pretty clear evidence of a "D" in the proper location of the "VDB" initials. That coin has been sold at least twice since then. However, once again, no certification service would certify the initial.
In an auction conducted by Bowers & Merena in the mid-1990s, Dave Bowers commented on a 1909-S VDB cent in the sale, stating that the coin was initially listed as "1909-S." Later, under more scrutiny, it was evident that the tops of "VDB" were on the reverse. He added that such faint "VDB" cents could easily pass casual inspection.

In several conversations over the years, Bowers admitted it was likely that a few 1910 "VDB" cents could exist, and he would love to see one. The specimen I found in 1985 was sold to a Brooklyn coin dealer who agreed that the tops of the VDB were there, and he has since resold it to a collector.

A full-page is devoted to this enigmatic variety in the reference book on Lincoln cents by Flynn & Wexler, and two photos may show portions of the "VDB." At least three other reputed 1910 "VDB" cents have been reported, but none has been certified by a primary grading service. It is clear, however, that dies that initially had the "VDB" were used to produce coins in 1909 and 1910.

Once a clearly defined specimen is located, all my speculation and research may bear fruit.

davewesen

is it a 1910? I don't know

Connecticoin

@braddick said:
Copy/pasted:

In August 1909, the two United States Mints began releasing the new 1909 Lincoln cent — some 3/4-million from San Francisco and 26 million from the Philadelphia Mint. By the end of the first week, Chief Mint Engraver Charles Barber ordered production halted, and all working dies with the initials "VDB" (Victor D. Brenner, the coin's designer) to be removed.

Barber was an a-hole. And his "Miss Liberty" on the dime, quarter, and half look like dudes.

DelawareDoons

@Connecticoin said:

@braddick said:
Copy/pasted:

In August 1909, the two United States Mints began releasing the new 1909 Lincoln cent — some 3/4-million from San Francisco and 26 million from the Philadelphia Mint. By the end of the first week, Chief Mint Engraver Charles Barber ordered production halted, and all working dies with the initials "VDB" (Victor D. Brenner, the coin's designer) to be removed.

Barber was an a-hole. And his "Miss Liberty" on the dime, quarter, and half look like dudes.

Barber was a hack who mostly developed engraving to a barely acceptable level of competence then rode on his fathers' coattails. In a fair and just world, Morgan would have been the chief engraver during their shared time there.

That's my Friday Hot Take for you.

BuffaloIronTail

@ChrisH821 said:
The centered dot, slant crossbar B reverse was also used on Philly coins too, wasn't it?

Correct. Some, not all.

Pete

BuffaloIronTail

@Connecticoin said:

@braddick said:
Copy/pasted:

In August 1909, the two United States Mints began releasing the new 1909 Lincoln cent — some 3/4-million from San Francisco and 26 million from the Philadelphia Mint. By the end of the first week, Chief Mint Engraver Charles Barber ordered production halted, and all working dies with the initials "VDB" (Victor D. Brenner, the coin's designer) to be removed.

Barber was an a-hole. And his "Miss Liberty" on the dime, quarter, and half look like dudes.

Barber didn't like Brenner. It wasn't because of him that the initials were removed. When the OK was given to remove them, though, he acted like pure lightning to do it.

I don't know how much sway the guy had at the Mint. I do know that no one dared to put them back on while he was alive.

George Morgan finally restored them starting with the 1918 Cent.

Pete

LanceNewmanOCC

@DelawareDoons said:
In a fair and just world,

.
i can ONLY just imagine such a thing...

lkenefic

Well, I was I initially thinking 09-S VDB... now I'm not so sure...

MarkW63

@ChrisH821 said:
The centered dot, slant crossbar B reverse was also used on Philly coins too, wasn't it?

Yes! I on purpose searched and bought one!
It also has the Shallow Valley "N" in UNITED
I added it along side the other style reverse and marked then as Type 1 & Type 2

Here is an example of the one I bought, I did have some trouble finding one with a good bold strike of the designer's initials, I actually bought two of them, the first one ended up to short on details to add it to my collection, the second one was a keeper.
There is clearly two versions of this coin, I don't think many collections have both!
At one point the Philly mint in 1909 produced the coin with the same reverse as the San Francisco mint did. At best I can figure, the SF. style reverse was likely the earlier version of production (Type 1 as we call it).

DelawareDoons

Alright enough bogarting the pictures.

Seller listed 2 dansco albums. One was an almost complete set of 1932-1964 quarters, only missing '32-D and '32-S. the other dansco was a Wheat album, with this thing in it. $175 shipped for both. Reverse lamination is kind of a bummer but hell, I'll take it for what I paid.

MarkW63

The mint mark location looks correct for an SVDB, it looks to match die set #3 although it may be a degree or so out of rotation?

Next, the font style of the mint mark looks correct (Spot On) including the serifs, also I'm pretty sure the die chip is present to the left side of the upper loop of the mint mark.

Lincoln's profile seems okay,
So, based on what I'm seeing on the obverse the coin looks to be a genuine coin.

Interesting thread so far, thanks for posting it!

FlyingAl

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the coin is genuine. Nice score for that price even with the reverse lamination!

braddick

A major score!
Nice.
It is cool to see it is still worth the hunt and the chase.

LanceNewmanOCC

@DelawareDoons said:

.
not that they are rare by any means BUT to find one in that condition is stellar! gratz.

ctf_error_coins

Get it labeled as a mint error

mbogoman

Very cool score!!! dare I say it?...YOU SUCK!!!

TennesseeDave

I like that alot. Congrats

logger7

Nice coin. I bought a collection recently, but the seller wanted too much for some low grade sets and I referred him to someone else. With nice original coins like that 1909-s vdb I wonder how many others there were?

DelawareDoons

@logger7 said:
Nice coin. I bought a collection recently, but the seller wanted too much for some low grade sets and I referred him to someone else. With nice original coins like that 1909-s vdb I wonder how many others there were?

They are out there... I have found a few keys lately in albums. 1916-D dime in VF, 1942/1 dime in XF, 26-S buff in VF. It's not too common these days, but they are out there.

This one was particularly weird, though, none of the Washingtons were remarkable at all, and the rest of the wheat album was missing all of the other key dates. The 09s was in there but it's in pretty rough shape, as are all the other earlier dates. So to see this coin in AU with the rest of these was pretty stunning. I am guessing whatever dealer they used priced it real cheap because of the lamination? I'm guessing these albums were put together no later than 1980 since that was the latest date in them.

hchcoin

Very nice!