Ebay auction - NOT a Gen 1.0

Connecticoin

This ebay seller claims this Walker is a Gen 1.0 -- it is not even a Gen 1.1 despite the serial number starting with "108", as the paper is ribbed. Appears to be a Gen 1.2.

Someone appears to be getting taken at the current price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353981970619?hash=item526af838bb:g:uUQAAOSwEv9iQnA1&LH_Auction=1

Panda4456

Well that’s dumb. People are buying the plastic not the coin

AUandAG

Connecticoin

@Panda4456 said:
Well that’s dumb. People are buying the plastic not the coin

AND they are not buying the plastic they think they are.

pointfivezero

Totally agree this is not a 1.0/1.1 but the prices for the 108xxxx cert numbers has risen dramatically in the past few months.

Tim

Connecticoin

@pointfivezero said:
Totally agree this is not a 1.0/1.1 but the prices for the 108xxxx cert numbers has risen dramatically in the past few months.

Tim

As far as I know, the 108xxxx cert numbers from Gen 1.2 carry no premium over other Gen 1.2 holders.

TomB

Maybe they're really interested in all the fingerprints on the coin?

pointfivezero

@Connecticoin said:

@pointfivezero said:
Totally agree this is not a 1.0/1.1 but the prices for the 108xxxx cert numbers has risen dramatically in the past few months.

Tim

As far as I know, the 108xxxx cert numbers from Gen 1.2 carry no premium over other Gen 1.2 holders.

Granted this is a Gold CAC example, but this is not unusual for the 108xxxx premiums realized recently. I spoke to a couple of old holder specialists at Long Beach and they concurred. If @86Saab is listening, he will also agree:

86Saab

I'm listening @pointfivezero... Huge premiums are being paid for Gen 1.2's with the 108 prefix. Another recent is the MS64 1881-S that went for $1125 on GC recently. There are a handful of others I've seen this year all bringing huge prices as well.

pointfivezero

Thanks @86Saab! If anyone knows the old holder market, it is you!

Tim

LanceNewmanOCC

is it simply not knowing the cert cutoff number for the difference between the two.

information lag is a constant problem across the globe and history.

pointfivezero

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
is it simply not knowing the cert cutoff number for the difference between the two.

information lag is a constant problem across the globe and history.

While I agree this has happened (and almost to me), there are some seasoned bidders bidding for these coins. The old holder market is just crazy right now:

86Saab

@LanceNewmanOCC I agree with @pointfivezero there has been a huge surge in collectors buying early holders with 1.0 & 1.1 white label rattlers bringing in $7k plus these days if you can find them and 2.0 & 2.1 white label NGC's bringing at least $1k and as high as $5k for an 1881-S Morgan with a Gold CAC at a recent Heritage auction. The 108 prefix rattlers being the first run of PCGS cert numbers has created a big interest in anything with the "first" cert numbers even if they are gen 1.2. I won't comment on the wisdom of holder collecting of which I have been guilty but it is a super hot market right now.

1peter1223

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363787871177?nma=true&si=ihL3lt0Qj41eFDwDXB44JJUv3FU%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

That's almost a $4,000 premium for an NGC 2.1 $20 Saint .

There are a few 2.1's on Ebay for 1,000's of dollars each .

ricko

I collect coins... not holders, stickers or labels. Not that there is anything wrong with that... Cheers, RickO

86Saab

@ricko I'd say you are probably the most sane person here but I've been told that we're all nuts for collecting little metal discs with pictures on them so I guess we'll all just revel in our insanity!

ricko

@86Saab.... Thanks for the compliment... I have been told the exact opposite by some people (notably my wife on occasion )... Cheers, RickO

logger7

If the 44-s is really a 65+/66 by today's standards then it is worth what it is bidding. Old fingerprints may or may not be permanent, or am I mistaken?

DelawareDoons

Glad I got my 108 last year before this madness, let's just leave it at that. And yes, I paid SOME premium, but not these 4 figure premiums lol.

Smudge

I almost fell into that trap. Check and check again before you buy.

Connecticoin

@logger7 said:
If the 44-s is really a 65+/66 by today's standards then it is worth what it is bidding. Old fingerprints may or may not be permanent, or am I mistaken?

Based on my "read" of the auction photo, there appears to be too much chatter in the right obverse field to upgrade from a 64.

Connecticoin

@DelawareDoons said:
Glad I got my 108 last year before this madness, let's just leave it at that. And yes, I paid SOME premium, but not these 4 figure premiums lol.

If Gen 1.2 "108s" are commanding significant premiums, I would take my profits now

nk1nk

@86Saab said:
@LanceNewmanOCC I agree with @pointfivezero there has been a huge surge in collectors buying early holders with 1.0 & 1.1 white label rattlers bringing in $7k plus these days if you can find them and 2.0 & 2.1 white label NGC's bringing at least $1k and as high as $5k for an 1881-S Morgan with a Gold CAC at a recent Heritage auction. The 108 prefix rattlers being the first run of PCGS cert numbers has created a big interest in anything with the "first" cert numbers even if they are gen 1.2. I won't comment on the wisdom of holder collecting of which I have been guilty but it is a super hot market right now.

The market is insanely hot, I think I may part with a NGC 2.1 and a couple PCGS doilies. I’m debating on eBay or GC. I prefer GC in general but I feel like ridiculous bidders tend to show up on ebay. Where would you sell to maximize your profits?

86Saab

@nk1nk Today my opinion is either, in the past I'd say eBay but GC has been hot lately. I've seen coins sell higher on there at times and higher on eBay at others. It depends on the day and who's bidding, so I guess I would say it's whatever your preference. I sell mine on eBay but have recently considered sending a few to GC to see how it goes. I'm just used to eBay so I haven't made the leap yet.

Portross

I didn’t win this one a few weeks ago, maybe missed a deal. Which generation is it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Proof-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-certified-PR-67-by-PCGS-Old-Green-Holder-/313889820484?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

pointfivezero

That is a 1.2 Rattler, just like the one in the OP. The 108xxxx certs are flying high right now. Price guide is $42.

Tim

logger7

@pointfivezero said:
That is a 1.2 Rattler, just like the one in the OP. The 108xxxx certs are flying high right now. Price guide is $42.

Tim

"Old holder lock upgrade". But the graders had a reason when they reviewed it not to call it the higher grade.

pointfivezero

@logger7 said:

@pointfivezero said:
That is a 1.2 Rattler, just like the one in the OP. The 108xxxx certs are flying high right now. Price guide is $42.

Tim

"Old holder lock upgrade". But the graders had a reason when they reviewed it not to call it the higher grade.

Yes, I'm not defending or justifying the current market prices. I'm just along for the ride. With that said, I think the key phrase in your response is "when they reviewed it" as there is a definite perception the TPG's were held to a higher standard with the older holders.

Tim

Ike1964

I pointed this out to the selling early in the auction. The seller responded that they could not revise it because the auction had started.

ironmanl63

When these people realize they did not get the 1.0 or 1.1 they will be sorry. There is no value to the 108 without being a 1.0 or 1.1. The green label 108 prefixes are equal to any other rattler around. The white label are the scarce holders.

pointfivezero

@Ike1964 said:
I pointed this out to the selling early in the auction. The seller responded that they could not revise it because the auction had started.

I also sent them a note with some pictures from Long Beach of true 1.0's and 1.1's. No response.

Tim

Connecticoin

@ironmanl63 said:
When these people realize they did not get the 1.0 or 1.1 they will be sorry. There is no value to the 108 without being a 1.0 or 1.1. The green label 108 prefixes are equal to any other rattler around. The white label are the scarce holders.

That's what I thought, but others posted that Gen 1.2's with a 108 prefix are worth a premium as well. Maybe I should try to sell this cert # for a premium (poker slab):

86Saab

@Connecticoin, @ironmanl63 is incorrect, 1.2's with the 108 prefix are worth a large premium right now. This was not the case just a couple of years ago but today buyers and collectors of old holders are very much interested and paying big bucks for them. If you disagree with me I will gladly pay high book price for your 1.2's with the 108 prefix!

ironmanl63

Everything changes over time.

opportunity

Where did the cert numbers begin?

pointfivezero

@opportunity said:
Where did the cert numbers begin?

For PCGS, the earliest slabs were 1080xxx.

Tim

asheland

I always look at the 5 on the slab, if there is one, that's usually the giveaway...