BEWARE: POSSIBLE SCAMMERS ON THE BOARDS

Copyboy1

I posted this over on the Buy, Sell, Trade Board, but this board gets more traction, so posting here, too. I'll remove this if the card happens to show up, but as of now, I think I got scammed.

I had a list of cards I posted here looking to buy. I've always had nothing but exceptional dealings with really great collectors on the boards, so I didn't think much when user name Clthom messaged me and said a guy had some cards to sell. I contacted the guy - he certainly knew cards - and we agreed on a fairly expensive card. He asked for payment via PayPal, which I sent him - a guy named William Jaypal. He was quite communicative up until he received the money.

Now a week later - no card, no response to multiple emails. Nothing PayPal can do to help. So likely an expensive mistake on my part. Sad that I will trust people less here because of this, since otherwise people have been so helpful and nice.

Hopefully I'm wrong and have to remove this. But beware of scammers, kids!

MsMorrisine

You were scammed

jimq

Matt, you were so great to deal with I'm sorry you ran into a scammer. These days there seems to be scammers everywhere. I hate to say that you always have to use G&S even when people ask for Friends and Family. Hasn't alway been that way but when the scammers find a trick they'll use it!

Copyboy1

@jimq said:
Matt, you were so great to deal with I'm sorry you ran into a scammer. These days there seems to be scammers everywhere. I hate to say that you always have to use G&S even when people ask for Friends and Family. Hasn't alway been that way but when the scammers find a trick they'll use it!

Yeah, I was dumb about it, for sure. Lesson learned the hard way!

olb31

Sorry that happened to you. I got scammed one time for a 1990 Sosa bgs 10. Paid $300 for it and never got it. The guy did contact me, but that's about it.

basketballcollector

That's too bad. Hope it wasn't too much money.

paulb71

This loser emailed me also last week and said his friend had a awesome 79 bb cello pack for sale psa high grade !
I asked him for a picture of the item he told me it was his friends and that I need to email him, that was a major red flag and I ignored his message. He most likely saw that around a year ago I posted WTB 79 baseball cello pack psa graded and decided to try to scam.

paulb71

GreenSneakers

You sent a PayPal to Jaypal?

brad31

Really sorry to hear that happened to you. Most of the people on here are solid and I have added a lot of great cards to my collection through this board.

The scammers in this hobby really suck.

Mickey71

Did you send Friends and Family?? You didn't specifically say that. Any yes the PAYPAL to Jaypal should have given you Sirens blaring warnings. This is not APRIL fools joke is it? Maybe you're in Australia or something??

doubledragon

@Copyboy1, The same guy messaged me and said a guy he knew had a card I'm looking for, I figured he was a scam artist, so I never replied to his message, here was his message to me:

Coz has 1927 Greiling Billy Bird for sale in good condition Here’s his email cozwallen@gmail.com

Copyboy1

@Mickey71 said:
Did you send Friends and Family?? You didn't specifically say that. Any yes the PAYPAL to Jaypal should have given you Sirens blaring warnings. This is not APRIL fools joke is it? Maybe you're in Australia or something??

I left off a letter. His last name was Jaypala. And I actually know someone with the last name of Jaypala, so it didn't seem out of the ordinary.

I thought I sent it through PayPal as a business. They charged me a fee and everything. But apparently not.

Centauri

Ugh. I was scammed by the same dude, same plan, and yes I recognize I am a complete moron. A fool and his money are soon parted, and I am a great fool. Small dollars, but sucks all the same. Buy a card without a picture? “Seems legit” said I and handed over the money. SOB emailed me the next day to rub it in.

As a side matter - the PayPal transaction was put in pending status as possible fraud. I then recognized what had happened and tried to reverse it. Nope. I called PayPal and said hey, you guys detected possible fraud and I am here to tell you that yes, it was fraud. Their response was sorry, nothing we can do. Then why the hell do you pend it?

dontippet

If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

Copyboy1

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Downtown1974

Sorry to hear it making its way to the sports cards side. Similar scam has been going on in the coin forum with various names. I received this message recently from the same guy you dealt with. Always the same scum bag tactic, just different aliases.

80sOPC

I get that PP doesn’t cover F&F but one of their users is using their gateway to perpetuate fraud. They can’t shake this one off. I would send this thread to them and demand recourse, and let them know you expect them compensate you, if they don’t you will escalate this to the FCC.

I say this as an executive in Payments. Lots of risk for them, they have a duty to Know Their Customer and they owe you compensation IMO. Don’t let them off the hook.

Vagabond

Got a message from that same person/account asking me to also reach out to someone via email address. I just blocked them and that was it. Someone else brought this up a couple of weeks ago on the NET54 boards and Leon made sure to warn all of us on possible scam - not that I would have contacted that person either way but you always gotta be careful when dealing with new accounts. Sorry, that happened to you but perhaps it will prevent someone else from getting scammed.

SportsModerator2

I received a PM from another member who fortunately dodged a bullet.

I can't find any actual posts by this individual.

If any of you do? Please post here the URL.

In the interim, I did PM Todd and Jackie about this individual.

He's also been hitting the coin forum(s) and has been successful.

According to the individual who didn't get scammed - Clthom used scans from eBay to fool individuals into thinking they had these items.

DBesse27

I also was approached by Clthom and my spidey sense told me not to email “Coz.” Sure glad I trusted my instincts!

1951WheatiesPremium

He got me but I used Goods and Services. Still working it out now…

cozwallen@gmail.com

Paid via Goods and Services to

CentsomVentures

Hope it helps…

SportsModerator2

This person is banned.

I would definitely be weary of any "new" member with things too good to be true?

Copyboy1

@SportsModerator2 said:
This person is banned.

I would definitely be weary of any "new" member with things too good to be true?

Thanks.

The guy knew enough to not raise a red flag with me. He offered up some PSA stuff, but also some BVG-graded cards and even knew qualifiers like (OC). His asking prices were a little lower than what you'd find on Ebay - right in range with everyone I've legitimately done deals with here. I even checked the cert# from the scan he sent me to see if it was a legit PSA card.

Skipping what should have been Step 1 - checking his profile to see if he was a regular or brand new - was my first mistake.

SportsModerator2

@Copyboy1 said:

@SportsModerator2 said:
This person is banned.

I would definitely be weary of any "new" member with things too good to be true?

Thanks.

The guy knew enough to not raise a red flag with me. He offered up some PSA stuff, but also some BVG-graded cards and even knew qualifiers like (OC). His asking prices were a little lower than what you'd find on Ebay - right in range with everyone I've legitimately done deals with here. I even checked the cert# from the scan he sent me to see if it was a legit PSA card.

Skipping what should have been Step 1 - checking his profile to see if he was a regular or brand new - was my first mistake.

Good point.

Also, another member checked the cert # of the card and found it on eBay and contacted "that" seller who knew "nothing" of Clthom. So, I can give him props for his due diligence.

davin72

All you have to do is ask them to coin the pic and they will vanish. Every time I ask that they never respond back. That’s when I know it was a scammer.

coolstanley

Its time to go back to postal money orders.

Ironmanfan

He reached out to me as well regarding something I posted I was looking for; fortunately I responded just with a simple thanks & never reached out to the email address provided.

IMF

Goldenage

Sorry this has happened to a few of you. It’s not a good feeling. I hope better times are ahead for you all.

Crashingwaves

Tried to get me too... and this is the second time I have received this type of scam approach. Previously, I almost made a deal then I determined the pic they sent was from the PSA website. A coined pic and G&S payment is the only way to go.

Same approach occurring on blowout as well. What is surprised me with the posts in this thread, is it appears the same guy used different PayPal accounts. Could it be more than 1 person in collaboration?

Mickey71

@Copyboy1 said:

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

Mcvillagehtx

This reminds me of the videos you see of folks just running into Walgreens and grabbing everything on the shelves and running out. I mean this shouldn't be hard to find the guy with just a modicum of effort. Not like it was paid with Bitcoin. PayPal should have a record. This website should have a record of the IP address used. It's like the Walgreens thieves....just figure no one in any position to do anything about it is going to care enough to do so. Depend on the apathy of others.

smallstocks

He got me too. I was suspicious but extremely lazy. Never again. I was charged a paypal fee too but that was because the money came from my bank account since I had no money in my paypal account.

They know this stuff is fraudulent but have decided not to do anything about it.

detroitfan2

@Mickey71 said:

@Copyboy1 said:

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I have to agree with this. In fact, from my understanding, the buyer is NEVER charged a fee from PayPal. What am I missing?

daltex

@detroitfan2 said:

@Mickey71 said:

@Copyboy1 said:

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I have to agree with this. In fact, from my understanding, the buyer is NEVER charged a fee from PayPal. What am I missing?

The buyer isn't charged, but the person sending money to his "friend" is. This is PayPal's rather brutal way of enforcing its ToS; don't do commercial deals with F&F. You don't have to like it, but PayPal is pretty up front about telling you not to send money to your "friends" if there is any possibility of fraud.

dictoresno

@detroitfan2 said:

@Mickey71 said:

@Copyboy1 said:

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I have to agree with this. In fact, from my understanding, the buyer is NEVER charged a fee from PayPal. What am I missing?

you get charged a fee I think when you have no balance and you need to FF transfer from the bank account on file.

PaulMaul

@dictoresno said:

@detroitfan2 said:

@Mickey71 said:

@Copyboy1 said:

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I have to agree with this. In fact, from my understanding, the buyer is NEVER charged a fee from PayPal. What am I missing?

you get charged a fee I think when you have no balance and you need to FF transfer from the bank account on file.

I think you only get charged a fee when using a credit card to fund a F&F transfer. If you use a linked bank account it is still free.

80sOPC

Another reason to always send the PP transaction through your CC for additional coverage.

Mickey71

@daltex said:

@detroitfan2 said:

@Mickey71 said:

@Copyboy1 said:

@dontippet said:
If Paypal charged you 2.9%, then you should be covered. Did you use a credit card? If yes, I would claim the fraud through them as well.

They charged me a fee, which I thought meant I was covered. But nope - PayPal claims it was a Friends & Family transaction, so no recourse. I paid straight from my bank account, so no protection there either. (I already talked to my bank.)

What sucks is PayPal COULD reverse the charge and take the money back. They just WON'T.

Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I have to agree with this. In fact, from my understanding, the buyer is NEVER charged a fee from PayPal. What am I missing?

The buyer isn't charged, but the person sending money to his "friend" is. This is PayPal's rather brutal way of enforcing its ToS; don't do commercial deals with F&F. You don't have to like it, but PayPal is pretty up front about telling you not to send money to your "friends" if there is any possibility of fraud.

He said he was charged a fee and used F & F and paid from his bank...not Credit Card. I don't understand. I thought only CC was a fee unless this changed over the past couple of years.

Justacommeman

Same exact scam has been run on the coin side for awhile now. Sucks

m

Copyboy1

@Mickey71 said:
Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I thought I had selected "Pay a Business" because a line that added a fee showed up. But PaPal is claiming I used F&F, but the fee was because the "seller" was overseas. It never said anywhere this was an overseas fee - if it had, I would never had sent the funds.

PayPal just listed it as a generic "fee" which I thought was covering me for paying a business.

@Mcvillagehtx - that's the most frustrating part. PayPal COULD EASILY track this down and get the money back. But they won't. They apparently only care about fraud if you pay them to care about fraud.

Mickey71

@Copyboy1 said:

@Mickey71 said:
Maybe everything has changed because I really don't understand this. If it was F & F and you didn't use a CC....then why was there a fee???????????????????????????????????????

I thought I had selected "Pay a Business" because a line that added a fee showed up. But PaPal is claiming I used F&F, but the fee was because the "seller" was overseas. It never said anywhere this was an overseas fee - if it had, I would never had sent the funds.

PayPal just listed it as a generic "fee" which I thought was covering me for paying a business.

@Mcvillagehtx - that's the most frustrating part. PayPal COULD EASILY track this down and get the money back. But they won't. They apparently only care about fraud if you pay them to care about fraud.

Sorry this all happened to you.

Tabe

PayPal doesn't charge a fee for F&F if you use a bank account:

https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

Yes, PayPal could do something in these cases but they don't because they don't want to encourage people breaking TOS. And that's what's happening here. If they start going after "sellers" in these cases, they're basically giving people the best of both worlds - buyer protection but not charging a fee to pay for that. Maybe they should do something in cases of repeated complaints - and then kick the complainers off the platform for violating TOS. They could also be argued to have an obligation to do something since they've been made aware of fraud.

What should probably happen is to eliminate F&F entirely - or at least charge a fee - and then give buyer protection. But then you're opening up PayPal to having to investigate fraud claims involving people who are literally just giving money and then decide they're unhappy.

daltex

As the OP said, he was charged a currency translation fee which he mistakenly thought it was a "regular" PayPal fee. I think the lesson here is to doublecheck our invoices.

Copyboy1

Here's a thought that would solve all of this: Why doesn't PayPal offer an escrow service?

Paypal puts a hold on the buyer's credit card for the amount. The seller uploads a tracking number. When it's shown as delivered, Paypal releases the money.

Seems like that would be an incredibly simple solution.

1951WheatiesPremium

@Copyboy1 said:
Here's a thought that would solve all of this: Why doesn't PayPal offer an escrow service?

Paypal puts a hold on the buyer's credit card for the amount. The seller uploads a tracking number. When it's shown as delivered, Paypal releases the money.

Seems like that would be an incredibly simple solution.

First off, I really appreciate you posting about this in the first place - it is/was a major help to all here at CU.

As to your PayPal specific issue, this is (allegedly) why they have Goods and Services as an option; when you use it you are (supposed to) get the exact coverage you desired. I’m probably not explaining anything you didn’t already know and if I read it right it seems you thought you did so, anyway. The parentheses are used above because I did use G&S and I’m awaiting a resolution. I’ve had no issues in the past but have heard some PayPal stories that will have me much happier when this is wrapped up and I’m fully refunded.

Anyhow, it’s never easy to admit you got beaten by one of these crooks - good on you for stepping up.

collector789

Often in life, it really does take 2 to get scammed. Be smart, people.

1951WheatiesPremium

@collector789 said:
Often in life, it really does take 2 to get scammed. Be smart, people.

Whew! Here I thought I was a victim of a one person scam whereby I had scammed myself! I was about to beat myself up!

Then I read this incredibly insightful post and realized that, often in life, a scam involves a second person. Of course!

Good thing, too: I was pretty mad so I was going to really beat myself to a pulp.

lucasj

Same guy, same message. Figured it was a scam so never replied.

horseyride

I had the scam email from him about 2 weeks ago. Asked for photo of coin, never got one, never sent $